From lojban+bncCICntNPQBRDM77fkBBoEBmGJAw@googlegroups.com Mon Sep 13 03:07:35 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ov5wX-0005Jr-UG; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 03:07:34 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf3904720gya.16 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 03:07:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=QplgV+alZVwi83PoLvv8dFZ9YuVrf52NRR4Wx2MRCOQ=; b=NA28s5+KndCUxKirMBUq0OpCMdQotVxl1kasMVM/taapt8zPKJJFuQQstfgGp/3L4K wJfmP08oE/g2X1fFtpfTDjo9/LLpNVAOyVeOZRf91CN/bGkXOucbDXu+gqauthY5tzKw 3LPUHhjUYKffmSwoyLveT1MO7vDLFuvCXXow4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=DJNXCS2HulwMWTPTicZq4fBudVYg7Ve3D6WqQg9RRqel2U1lMl/M307EPolbyo4wj5 764BB5SksAqjl8gqoO47Mss/dtO/9ygVKoQjZPex4HvU9nw3i71kgot+aHM53OwjMDiF UkSiuE79M3F8nBASarPBFglHgi6/y6fpygSYA= Received: by 10.100.53.26 with SMTP id b26mr109452ana.32.1284372428615; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 03:07:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.131.11 with SMTP id i11ls3927718ann.5.p; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 03:07:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.8.33 with SMTP id l33mr104609ani.24.1284372428237; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 03:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by f20g2000pro.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 03:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 03:07:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4C8DE806.4050107@lojban.org> X-IP: 166.191.86.18 References: <729457.38076.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4C8DE806.4050107@lojban.org> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100825 Ubuntu/10.04 (lucid) Firefox/3.6.9,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <0e7c05f9-d9c1-4e79-ad59-9dc6c2dcb7b6@f20g2000pro.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI From: Lindar To: lojban X-Original-Sender: lindarthebard@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think I've figured out what I mean. {.ai} should be "intentionally", not "I intend to..." like an evidential. {.a'o} should be "hopefully", not "I hope..." like an evidential. I said something earlier today after getting way too stressed out about this (If you couldn't tell, I have some issues with social interaction. I'm really working on it.) that embodied what I think is the correct usage. It was something to the tune of {.i mi nitcu lo nu .ai klama le zarci pu lo nu tervecnu lo bisyladru kei pu lo nu jundi le skina be lo tcebarda remymi'i}. If we went with the 'standard' definition, it would mean something like "I need to intend to...", which isn't at all what I meant. I wanted to express that I was doing everything intentionally/that I felt intent about it, which is what UI1 should be. If people absolutely need that shortcut, then why don't we make -evidentials- specifically for these definitions and make all of UI1 what I've been saying it should be? .ai'i - I intend... .a'oi - I hope... .e'ai - I permit... .e'oi - I request... .e'ui - I suggest... .ei'i - I should... I think this would be a fantastic addition to the language, and would resolve the issue on both ends of the spectrum. For those that do not like the irrealis UI, it would give them their intended meaning of UI back. For those that specifically want these irrealis UI, we could make them into evidentials, which provides a grammatical contiguity, and makes updating reading material very easy as it would take a simple find-and-replace. This proposal, to me, seems like it would satisfy everybody involved. I feel very strongly about this, and would greatly appreciate constructive feedback. I do very much apologise for any perceived 'attitude'. Also thank you to Lojbab for explaining very well what he explained. That makes sense, and gave me the idea for this proposal. I also would like to apologise for beating a dead zombie horse. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.