From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBD4y7jkBBoEn_JeVw@googlegroups.com Mon Sep 13 06:24:27 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ov91B-0006vl-4k; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:24:26 -0700 Received: by fxm17 with SMTP id 17sf720915fxm.16 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:24:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=slhshmvzVzO7dlulnS6utO1S0+ypcJzIWzhF7cNHquk=; b=zmQkBGa68MGxdrSoGbaEH2g2QDLkcoqe3XoOXZm4SR0wur+8Cit6qKvwtQ6kMbkEvU BX3lsHaP/zIIEMZNIMdL+h2MhJxL8/z/Cjq0c9ktxaWJTPXN4yPzwk+/yZc8IzNlBvuW xwoonZAGjlGycXLZG+YUF672rLyzWeS+jxrIE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=qiBr/6Lbk32KBZoMVXvh89SQdM3VPnrr5EunRRYb8EGeTNSvOM3d4Alj1uqebQkRFT ciURgq7ds0t7X83DbX5WqguyL+4i2v+jvTQt6TztsTDDias1acgun44YPzJDZJS9NANO 63Px94UlYD+ujfKtv/RSge11qDSb6zQhS9oTk= Received: by 10.223.85.137 with SMTP id o9mr108380fal.24.1284384248426; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:24:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.223.59.212 with SMTP id m20ls2552455fah.3.p; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.116.204 with SMTP id n12mr105450faq.21.1284384247415; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.116.204 with SMTP id n12mr105449faq.21.1284384247359; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f43.google.com (mail-bw0-f43.google.com [209.85.214.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l25si1695376fam.0.2010.09.13.06.24.06; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.43; Received: by bwz16 with SMTP id 16so8090533bwz.2 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:24:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.126.153 with SMTP id c25mr3211616bks.27.1284384246025; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.98.71 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:24:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <729457.38076.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4C8DE806.4050107@lojban.org> <0e7c05f9-d9c1-4e79-ad59-9dc6c2dcb7b6@f20g2000pro.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:24:05 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7df8abd4ccd0490240294 --0016e6d7df8abd4ccd0490240294 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't know if you missed it earlier oren but selkik mentioned a cmavo that he and DBRock apparently invented which I intend to use. {da'oi} a member of COI which takes the preceding attitudinal and applies it to the following vocative. I imagine this would often have an implicit {la'a/za'a/ba'a}. e.g. {do klama lo zdani be lo rirni be do kuku lo balcu'e .i .uicai da'oi .rirni.} "you're going home from university. Your parents must be ecstatic". On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Oren wrote: > [snip] > > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 06:07, Lindar wrote: > >> I think I've figured out what I mean. >> {.ai} should be "intentionally", not "I intend to..." like an >> evidential. >> {.a'o} should be "hopefully", not "I hope..." like an evidential. > > ... > > This proposal, to me, seems like it would >> satisfy everybody involved. I feel very strongly about this, and would >> greatly appreciate constructive feedback. > > > [/snip] > > Does this proposal speak to Luke's original question about a briefer way of > expressing/asking about other's sentiments? I'm really hoping to hear > something more after the { .aipei do zukte ma } suggestion stalled. This has > been one perennial dissatisfaction for me as well. > > Would such "evidential UI" have special usage such that they can take a > pro-sumti argument and express this things, but defaulting to the speaker? > > (all glosses are just possible senses; there's certainly no explicit "ba") > { .a'o do dansu } Hopefully you'll dance. > { .a'oi do dansu } I hope you'll dance. > { ti .a'oi do dansu } This guy hopes you'll dance. > { do .a'oi mo } What are you hoping [for/to do/to see]? > { .a'oi mi mei ti } I'm a pirate. > > > I'm guessing that in this proposal {.au'i } becomes "I want ..." which > might answer the original question: > > { do mo } "Whatcha up to?" > { do .au'i ma } "Whatcha want?" > { do .au'i mo } "Whatcha wanna do?" > > ...This is all very not lojban. I look forward to being told this is all > crazy. All I'm saying is that "brevity is the soul of language." > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6d7df8abd4ccd0490240294 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know if you missed it earlier oren but selkik mentioned a cmavo= that he and DBRock apparently invented which I intend to use. =A0

<= div>{da'oi} a member of COI which takes the preceding attitudinal and a= pplies it to the following vocative. =A0

I imagine this would often have an implicit {la'a/z= a'a/ba'a}. =A0e.g. {do klama lo zdani be lo rirni be do kuku lo bal= cu'e .i .uicai da'oi .rirni.} =A0"you're going home from u= niversity. =A0Your parents must be=A0ecstatic".

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Oren <= span dir=3D"ltr"><get.oren@gmail.c= om> wrote:
[snip]

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 06:07, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com= > wrote:
I think I've figured out what I mean.
{.ai} should be "intentionally", not "I intend to..." l= ike an
evidential.
{.a'o} should be "hopefully", not "I hope..." like = an evidential.=A0
...=A0
This proposal, to me, seems like it would satisfy everybody involved. I feel very strongly about this, and would
greatly appreciate constructive feedback.

=
[/snip]

Does this proposal speak to Luke'= s original question about a briefer way of expressing/asking about other= 9;s sentiments? I'm really hoping to hear something more after the { .a= ipei do zukte ma } suggestion stalled. This has been one perennial dissatis= faction for me as well.

Would such "evidential UI" have special usage= such that they can take a pro-sumti argument and express this things, but = defaulting to the speaker?

(all glosses are just p= ossible senses; there's certainly no explicit "ba")
{ .a'o do dansu } Hopefully you'll dance.=A0
{ .a= 9;oi do dansu }=A0I hope you'll dance.
{ ti .a'oi do dans= u }=A0This guy hopes you'll dance.
{ do .a'oi mo } What a= re you hoping [for/to do/to see]?
{ .a'oi mi mei ti } I'm a pirate.


I'm guessing that in this proposal {.au'i } becomes "I w= ant ..." which might answer the original question:

{ do mo } "Whatcha up to?"
{ = do .au'i ma } "Whatcha want?"
{ do .au'i mo } &= quot;Whatcha wanna do?"

...This is all very n= ot lojban. I look forward to being told this is all crazy. All I'm sayi= ng is that "brevity is the soul of language."

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