From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhD70LrkBBoEo2Vavg@googlegroups.com Mon Sep 13 15:41:18 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OvHi4-0002Cc-Nj; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:41:18 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf1160623wwe.16 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:41:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xYtj43jay7TNDSn3lYP3kgl7S/ZuKQo2d5VFM31tApk=; b=rgFYyS84fWTRrHXqB783gKz3pv9J5NjMoyjLpNH4SdCrHvxgaIKWjhDBVTyVRFWw5e d7Pz5m1RVNI57h2WtonEZ9MIlsfRJPmJWFUoROzK/NPYnLhVDl79XS1NoCpplri6vUJY ykTQLUsmKy5NH8yxosHJygLm77ixLY8P6rt14= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=WFIfL/AMf2p/NXjleFTgIalEKRpsC9hhQR5ZHuk9UH50cHySkPzNt+uqgJM06m1l2Q efLGJJLDm+N8fXtrCZe84JQO2XemexfoEAiq6v+ZqjpDcZhUmgOCkhD3e7uV/0scBmS/ R9AFKq9HQuQNn/8QqjVeBpzl60I0by2+8ypzY= Received: by 10.216.145.90 with SMTP id o68mr706652wej.23.1284417659922; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:40:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.39.10 with SMTP id d10ls3852799wbe.2.p; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.157.73 with SMTP id a9mr235568wbx.12.1284417658524; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.157.73 with SMTP id a9mr235567wbx.12.1284417658475; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f176.google.com (mail-wy0-f176.google.com [74.125.82.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id x33si2516750wbs.5.2010.09.13.15.40.57; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.176; Received: by wyf23 with SMTP id 23so7000411wyf.7 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:40:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.74.82 with SMTP id w60mr3109411wed.106.1284417651964; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.22.199 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:40:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 16:40:51 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] le virnu smani blozeile'a From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502c8a4e37bee04902bc94a --00504502c8a4e37bee04902bc94a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 5:25 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > Typos: > > {xaysjukni} on p.19: {xasyjukni}. > > {ganlu} on p. 24: {ganlo} > > {li ro} on p. 24: {li re}. > Fixed! Thanks > > > Okay, so this is all word choice matters, I didn't find anything wrong > > grammatically. > > > > In {.i la modix. jo'u le mamta vu'o goi ko'a tervecnu lo stagi}: > > Why did you use {lo stagi}, for "groceries", instead of {lo cidja}, {lo > > pinxe}, {lo cidja .e lo pinxe}, {lo se citka}, or {lo se xagji}? > Probably is my bad understanding of "groceries" (I'm not a native > English speaker) I thought it was mostly related to vegetables. Is it > instead "food" ? > Well, {lo stagi} is the edible portion of a plant. "Groceries" includes any and all edible and drinkable things, not just edible plants. {lo cidja} is food, {lo se pinxe} is drink, {lo se citka} is something consumed (which I say is closest to "groceries"), {lo se xagji} is something hungered for. > > > In {gi'e cuxna lo cnino blozeile'a lanci betu'i le stakumfa}: > > The living room is "a room in a home used... for leisure activities, > > entertaining guests, etc.; parlor.", and is also called the common room. > I > > would suggest using either {lo kampu kumfa} or {lo kumfa bepa'u loka > surla}, > > {lo kumfa betefi'e loka surla} , or {lo surla kumfa}. > > I like "surla" but I fear it may convey the sense that is a place > where someone goes to get some rest (so it would be similar to a > bedroom). "kampu" might be more appropriate. I'll think a little bit > more about this > > I would call the bedroom {lo kumfa betefi'e loka sipna}, or {lo sipna kumfa} for short. > > In {... gi'e merli le ka lo my. ciblu cu danre kei ....}: > > I would suggest instead {...gi'e merli le ni my. ciblu danre kei ....}, > "the > > quantity of (the blood type-of pressure) of M". > The problem for danre is that x1 is "the presser" and x2 is "the > pressed" so the "pressure" should be "lenu danre" (or "ledu'u danre" > ??). > > I'll try with "merli le ni ciblu du'u danre kei" let's see if it works. > > > In {gi'e darxi le my. cidni}: > > You might want to consider specifying that the doctor is checking his > knees, > > as {lo cidni} can refer to any hinged joint- {tuple cidni} or {tupcidni}. > Yes, good catch! > > > In {...la modix. cu rere'u klama beki'u le jinku befi lo skorbuti .e > zo'e}: > > I suggest {...la.modix. cu xruti klama beki'u....} or {... xrukla > > beki'u....}. > I'm not sure about "xruti". To me it as more the sense of "restore" > than "anew" (or "again") > Ah, well, {xrukla} means "x1 returns to earlier location x2 from x3 via route x4 using x5", > > > Also, the English is "scurvy or something", but {lo skorbuti .e zo'e} is > > "scurvy and something". It should be {... .a zo'e}. > Right! I was mislead by the use of Italian "and" the would be used here. > > > In {.i le blozeile'a beme'e la modix. na nelci le je'erse'atci}: > > I suggest {... na nelci lo jesni pambe} or {... lo jespambe}. > I would agree but I found "je'erse'atci" in jbovlaste for "syringe" > and I used it. I don't like "je'erse'atci" either ... > > > In {.i ca le vanci ki le patfu po la modix. klama le zdani .i my. skicu > le > > nu klama be le mikce briju kei le patfu}: > > I suggest {... .ije my. skicu ....}. > ok. I see the point. Maybe I should check if ".ije" is appropriate in > other points > > > In {.i la modix. selgidva le cartu gi'e litru lo traji cilce xamsi}: > > I suggest {... le cartu ja'e lonu litru ....}. > not sure about this. I need some more thinking ... > My reason for suggesting {ja'e lonu} is that following the map is the cause for Modi sailing through the wildest seas. > > > In {rivbi lo cicfe'u cizda'u noi dukse be le selterpa bei lenu le ta > lisri > > cu skicu}: > > I suggest {... la selterpa ja'e lenu ...}, and you want {... lo ti lisri > na > > skicu}. > > I wanted to use the dukse x2 (the "fearness" is the aspect that is in > excess) and x3 (the standard is "what can be described in this > story"). I 've tried to rephrase it. Let's see if it's better. > I see what you're getting at. My suggestion was made to keep it more like the original. > > > In {.i la modix. mo'u klama le bisli badydi'u tu'i lo cpana cmana}: > > I suggest {.i la.modix. to'e cliva ....} or {.i la.modix. tolcliva ....} > or > > {... tolyli'a ....}. > I'm not sure. It seems too much of a jump to say that "arrive" is "the > opposite of leaving". I see your point but I need to think about it > more ... > Arrive is exactly what {to'e cliva} means. {tolyli'a} is in jbovlaste: http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=dict.pl2&Database=*&Query=tolyli%27a > > > In {.i ne'i le badydi'u ....} > > I suggest {.i ne'i ri ....}, since the English is merely "Inside, ....". > > {ri} in this instance refers to {le bisli badydi'u tu'i lo cpana cmana}, > > unless I'm mistaken, in which case I'd suggest {ra}. > It' si the castle. I've changed for "ri" now > > > In {.i le xasyjukni mafcre cu cusku lu ... mi kei mi ta noi rokci cu > dunda > > do ....}: > > I suggest {... mi dunda lo ti rokci do ....}. > The problem is that this would mean "the rock of this". There's an > example in CLL that says that the proper way of doing it is to use "ta > noi rocki" ("this, which is a rock") or "lo vi rokci" (the rock here > in the nearby). I > Honestly, if I could get away with it, I'd use {ti rokci} to mean "this rock", but {ti} doesn't act like {LE}. Closest legal is {ti pa rokci}. > > > > > In {.i ca'o le je'erse'a ....}: > > I suggest {.i ca'o lo jesni se pambe ...}. > If I'll change the word for "syringe" I'll do this as well. > > > In {... ku ganai do mutce jgari le rokci ....}: > > I suggest {... do mutce danre jgari ....}. > I like that. Just "holding" was too weak. > > > > In {... gi muvgau do ba'o le je'erse'a ....}: > > I suggest {... gi do muvdu ba'o lo jesni se pambe....} > Ok. I see "muvdu" works better > > > In {.i le mikce cu sanga lo narcladu ca'o le nu le je'erse'a cu bredi > seva'u > > la modix.} > > I suggest {... lo se pambe ....}. > > > > In {.i la modix cu stali ba'o le je'erse'a}: > > I suggest {lo se pambe cu mulno}. > > > > In {.i la modix. terdunda lo biskruji ca'o le nu klama bele zdani}: > > I suggest {.ije my. terdunda ....}. > > Thank you! I will incorporate the changes and think a little bit more > about the "syringe" and "injection" translation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00504502c8a4e37bee04902bc94a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 5:25 AM, Remo De= ntato <rdentato@= gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

> Typos:
> {xaysjukni} on p.19: {xasyjukni}.
> {ganlu} on p. 24: {ganlo}
> {li ro} on p. 24: {li re}.
Fixed! Thanks

> Okay, so this is all word choice matters, I didn't find anything w= rong
> grammatically.
>
> In {.i la modix. jo'u le mamta vu'o goi ko'a tervecnu lo s= tagi}:
> Why did you use {lo stagi}, for "groceries", instead of {lo = cidja}, {lo
> pinxe}, {lo cidja .e lo pinxe}, {lo se citka}, or {lo se xagji}?
Probably is my bad understanding of "groceries" (I'm no= t a native
English speaker) I thought it was mostly related to vegetables. =A0Is it instead "food" ?

Well, {lo stagi} is the= edible portion of a plant. "Groceries" includes any and all edib= le and drinkable things, not just edible plants.

{lo cidja} is food,= {lo se pinxe} is drink, {lo se citka} is something consumed (which I say i= s closest to "groceries"), {lo se xagji} is something hungered fo= r.

> In {gi'e cuxna lo cnino blozeile'a lanci betu'i le stakumf= a}:
> The living room is "a room in a home used... for leisure activiti= es,
> entertaining guests, etc.; parlor.", and is also called the commo= n room. I
> would suggest using either {lo kampu kumfa} or {lo kumfa bepa'u lo= ka surla},
> {lo kumfa betefi'e loka surla} , or {lo surla kumfa}.

I like "surla" but I fear it may convey the sense that is a= place
where someone goes to get some rest (so it would be similar to a
bedroom). "kampu" might be more appropriate. I'll think a lit= tle bit
more about this

I would call the bedroom {lo = kumfa betefi'e loka sipna}, or {lo sipna kumfa} for short.
=A0
=
> In {... gi'e merli le ka lo my. ciblu cu danre kei ....}:
> I would suggest instead {...gi'e merli le ni my. ciblu danre kei .= ...}, "the
> quantity of (the blood type-of pressure) of M".
The problem for danre is that x1 is "the presser" and x2 is= "the
pressed" so the "pressure" should be "lenu danre" = (or "ledu'u danre"
??).

I'll try with "merli le ni ciblu du'u danre kei" let'= s see if it works.

> In {gi'e darxi le my. cidni}:
> You might want to consider specifying that the doctor is checking his = knees,
> as {lo cidni} can refer to any hinged joint- {tuple cidni} or {tupcidn= i}.
Yes, good catch!

> In {...la modix. cu rere'u klama beki'u le jinku befi lo skorb= uti .e zo'e}:
> I suggest {...la.modix. cu xruti klama beki'u....} or {... xrukla<= br> > beki'u....}.
I'm not sure about "xruti". To me it as more the sense = of "restore"
than "anew" (or "again")

Ah, w= ell, {xrukla} means "x1 returns to earlier location x2 from x3 via rou= te x4 using x5",

> Also, the English is "scurvy or something", but {lo skorbuti= .e zo'e} is
> "scurvy and something". It should be {... .a zo'e}.
Right! I was mislead by the use of Italian "and" the would = be used here.

> In {.i le blozeile'a beme'e la modix. na nelci le je'erse&= #39;atci}:
> I suggest {... na nelci lo jesni pambe} or {... lo jespambe}.
I would agree but I found "je'erse'atci" in jbovlas= te for "syringe"
and I used it. I don't like "je'erse'atci" either ...=

> In {.i ca le vanci ki le patfu po la modix. klama le zdani .i my. skic= u le
> nu klama be le mikce briju kei le patfu}:
> I suggest {... .ije my. skicu ....}.
ok. I see the point. Maybe I should check if ".ije" is appr= opriate in
other points

> In {.i la modix. selgidva le cartu gi'e litru lo traji cilce xamsi= }:
> I suggest {... le cartu ja'e lonu litru ....}.
not sure about this. I need some more thinking ...

My reason for suggesting {ja'e lonu} is that following the map i= s the cause for Modi sailing through the wildest seas.

> In {rivbi lo cicfe'u cizda'u noi dukse be le selterpa bei lenu= le ta lisri
> cu skicu}:
> I suggest {... la selterpa ja'e lenu ...}, and you want {... lo ti= lisri na
> skicu}.

I wanted to use the dukse x2 (the "fearness" is the aspect = that is in
excess) and x3 (the standard is "what can be described in this
story"). =A0I 've tried to rephrase it. Let's see if it's = better.

I see what you're getting at. My sugge= stion was made to keep it more like the original.

> In {.i la modix. mo'u klama le bisli badydi'u tu'i lo cpan= a cmana}:
> I suggest {.i la.modix. to'e cliva ....} or {.i la.modix. tolcliva= ....} or
> {... tolyli'a ....}.
I'm not sure. It seems too much of a jump to say that "arriv= e" is "the
opposite of leaving". I see your point but I need to think about it more ...

Arrive is exactly what {to'e cliva} m= eans. {tolyli'a} is in jbovlaste:http://= www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=3Ddict.pl2&Database=3D*&Query= =3Dtolyli%27a

> In {.i ne'i le badydi'u ....}
> I suggest {.i ne'i ri ....}, since the English is merely "Ins= ide, ....".
> {ri} in this instance refers to {le bisli badydi'u tu'i lo cpa= na cmana},
> unless I'm mistaken, in which case I'd suggest {ra}.
It' si the castle. I've changed for "ri" now

> In {.i le xasyjukni mafcre cu cusku lu ... mi kei mi ta noi rokci cu d= unda
> do ....}:
> I suggest {... mi dunda lo ti rokci do ....}.
The problem is that this would mean "the rock of this". The= re's an
example in CLL that says that the proper way of doing it is to use "ta=
noi rocki" ("this, which is a rock") or "lo vi rokci&qu= ot; (the rock here
in the nearby). =A0I

Honestly, if I could get away= with it, I'd use {ti rokci} to mean "this rock", but {ti} do= esn't act like {LE}. Closest legal is {ti pa rokci}.

>
> In {.i ca'o le je'erse'a ....}:
> I suggest {.i ca'o lo jesni se pambe ...}.
If I'll change the word for "syringe" I'll do this = as well.

> In {... ku ganai do mutce jgari le rokci ....}:
> I suggest {... do mutce danre jgari ....}.
I like that. Just "holding" was too weak.


> In {... gi muvgau do ba'o le je'erse'a ....}:
> I suggest {... gi do muvdu ba'o lo jesni se pambe....}
Ok. I see "muvdu" works better

> In {.i le mikce cu sanga lo narcladu ca'o le nu le je'erse'= ;a cu bredi seva'u
> la modix.}
> I suggest {... lo se pambe ....}.
>
> In {.i la modix cu stali ba'o le je'erse'a}:
> I suggest {lo se pambe cu mulno}.
>
> In {.i la modix. terdunda lo biskruji ca'o le nu klama bele zdani}= :
> I suggest {.ije my. terdunda ....}.

Thank you! I will incorporate the changes and think a little bit more=
about the "syringe" and "injection" translation.

--
You received this message because = you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
=

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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