From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDy1L7kBBoEV0Vvyg@googlegroups.com Tue Sep 14 10:01:54 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OvYtC-0006l0-7r; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:01:53 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf1390744wwe.16 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:01:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=2ZyaTQvpN6y6QZFRE4AEvsZFvKFz13bfzp/F/tavmuY=; b=QYg5RvCCnEn4OSPwxhNOvZ0ybMxay4IsyWOh4Xe6U2AGmRfFNPxjQWodoebzZstgqj xJQRlBon5Kumbx7I+aVdGlGO3SMip2R160tSwNjL0ZiCEyUbWgseLyyHdrezzhKCMZlr 7T/KHT2ZfwDRR1u3lWNEVYIH4wEcaBOs2F078= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=GTqz5AXJlMdrqyE/Gd3a+9aWdaRpSiOYodQcUUID5pUsHe65L5w7P+jGEQp0fJAcY9 XwP2bKV0CZDucsR1vk2u9dmu1rK4cOdBFF/rLo2qgQzNCC6IvdYr/dzFP/kS47h5R1KZ t5kZnnrmE7U95TvwCKQgtxeShQ86xsAtUYeJY= Received: by 10.216.145.130 with SMTP id p2mr85788wej.22.1284483698511; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:01:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.237.165 with SMTP id y37ls89783weq.1.p; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.150.170 with SMTP id z42mr228308wej.10.1284483697028; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.150.170 with SMTP id z42mr228307wej.10.1284483697011; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f172.google.com (mail-wy0-f172.google.com [74.125.82.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id o41si129296weq.12.2010.09.14.10.01.35; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.172; Received: by mail-wy0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 11so10504457wyi.17 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:01:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.134.210 with SMTP id k18mr151421wbt.160.1284483695864; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.151.203 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Sep 2010 10:01:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <729457.38076.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4C8DE806.4050107@lojban.org> <0e7c05f9-d9c1-4e79-ad59-9dc6c2dcb7b6@f20g2000pro.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:01:35 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > Some states of mind are more common for states > of the world that are assumed not to presently be true (hope, for instance), I agree with the rest of what you said, but one minor digression about hope: Hope does not assume non-factuality. It assumes neither factuality nor non-factuality. You can say for example "I hope that you are well". This does not assume you are not well, in fact for hope to be possible it must assume that your being well is a possibility. Or "I hope he passed the exam". For the hope to make sense, I cannot assume that he did not pass.This is how hope differs from wish. Wish does assume non-factuality: "I wish you were well" (I know that you are not well, but my preferred state of affairs would be different), "I wish he had passed the exam" (I know he didn't pass, but my preferred state of affairs would be that he had passed). mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.