From lojban+bncCOnL7Z71BBCb7IfkBBoE3d6sgA@googlegroups.com Sat Sep 04 00:33:08 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OrnFI-0005F2-Lp; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 00:33:08 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf3496446gya.16 for ; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 00:32:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:x-ip:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=TIobbtFSRJ9+LFjc8ZWElKIjuy5qQJ5q+WM52ig2Cwo=; b=Hgts9FwyaTB9bUnW+3ysCqJtsXJQRJwKTnBix+tj5dpH0pu0bhulP9IqWThyXfRbf6 s/gyGyvRjF3k5ivjmA/Hy3z4G6CtNW/uK9xwBS/6gq0IoQdaUUX31zovG8LDkVzpe8/z 1NUeKoyQG6ubznM+z2Ntqm3cWb/KkntNqOh5U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:x-ip:user-agent:x-http-useragent :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=FOYTDV4rhq7FHVkPDMQ4ci9v+Q09J/SJ5b1lh6RJyXp0PLckDLbGaVYma8mKRHD1YV mienay7BC6OmiOHeR0JoKaGGIW1M06f5PRZW6fAFdbxYY0gjzP8qbUrtQYltE+a9wHvl E8+8WDanMTYUPSVQElI4bjSwqrplHg2fg8Cds= Received: by 10.91.42.38 with SMTP id u38mr325047agj.20.1283585563184; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 00:32:43 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.83.8 with SMTP id k8ls188460agl.0.p; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 00:32:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.42.38 with SMTP id u38mr231050agj.50.1283585557910; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 00:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sat, 4 Sep 2010 00:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 00:32:35 -0700 (PDT) X-IP: 70.112.93.29 User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100723,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <022fd822-ce8f-4d77-84c5-f828612bb81f@x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] .i ki'u lo cribe mi na sipna From: tomoj To: lojban X-Original-Sender: thomasjack@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Consider {.i mi na cusku bau la .lojban.}. This clearly means "it is not the case that: I discuss in Lojban". There appears to be some confusion, though, with some BAI (natlang's fault, I think). Consider also {.i mi na cusku ki'u lo nu mi na djica}. This looks like "I don't discuss because I don't want to", but in fact (I claim) means "it is not the case that: I discuss because I don't want to" (vagueness aside). The corpus has plenty of examples of 'BAI ma' used with {na}: 15 Aug 2003 14:36:23 mu'i ma do na nelci loi kabri 22 Mar 2005 17:12:37 ki'u ma le mi cmene na cmima 24 Mar 2005 07:39:45 ki'u ma la norsmu cu na spuda 05 Jul 2005 14:40:59 mu'i ma do na se mikce doi bancus 14 Apr 2009 06:58:15 ki'u ma na djica 10 Aug 2009 01:30:05 ri'a ma la'e di'u na gendra If my claim above is correct, {lo cribe} is a correct answer to all these questions. We can use a periphrasis like {.i ma krinu lo nu na ...}, or simply use {na'e} if it's appropriate. Are there any other nice ways around this? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.