From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhDfmojkBBoEV-fQAQ@googlegroups.com Sat Sep 04 02:12:16 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OronE-00083n-Dw; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:12:16 -0700 Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26sf700582wwf.16 for ; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:12:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=vCeXymRDV7H1js3CFZDrGzfgOjAZUVB0JsWjh9L4VwM=; b=kRiy2M2WbCGeft30Y/IsdkihJmNIWxKXf9i3l5GiTcXxt+E7LgIVv0JxNrSA7k+I80 xjK/OtXPpL9r/Qj+FhksD3LVY1slzq/nhJ6ITBUIxiZYa57oSGZ/l7/EU8rdZkYPe0qe Mxxzz2RsqTiPp/oj9jtiXNQ42MEBhG15Oj7BI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=7GDEw+IDcMbNoZiK/q98IqmCfO7wIDLnJ8piPOdNE6+Knp2jdqqG1GHMvEVUuzqFtq pR+bOYFTB2/2VJOTjgY28HlNbCxNcxzG2XtHK3mxjT84HSbwo6yf+1Q8jKOVwzO6Zt6i i9lvNb8zH/mHSlW+iEwefWj8BThqTFb9H85VU= Received: by 10.216.145.167 with SMTP id p39mr357824wej.25.1283591519646; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:11:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.198.162 with SMTP id v34ls1014732wen.3.p; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.233.219 with SMTP id p69mr241949weq.1.1283591518453; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.233.219 with SMTP id p69mr241948weq.1.1283591518432; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f51.google.com (mail-ww0-f51.google.com [74.125.82.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v4si918152weq.9.2010.09.04.02.11.57; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.51; Received: by wwi17 with SMTP id 17so3148923wwi.20 for ; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.72.141 with SMTP id m13mr471793wbj.143.1283591517213; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:11:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.139.71 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Sep 2010 02:11:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Stela Selckiku Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 05:11:27 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] ma krinu lonu lo jbopre na tavla fo la.lojban. ne'i levi snustu | Why aren't we speaking in Lojban in here? To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > There are the IRC rooms as well, which are also for Lojbanic discussions. > Every time I am (infrequently) on IRC, I see either no active discussions, > or I see active discussions about Lojban being held in English. .i za'a lo nu tavla fo la .lojban. ve cu'u la .irc. cu cafne .i'e .i lo nu glico tavla cu zmadu .ie fi lo ka cafne kei ki'u lo za'i so'i nintadni .e so'i za'e cimnynintadni (to zoi zoi eternaj komencantoj zoi toi) cu jundi .i ku'i ji'a so'i jbobau nu casnu cu fasnu za'a ni'o ko ve cu'u la .irc. tavla fo la .lojban. .i lakne fa lo nu lo jbopre cu jbobau spuda > I very occasionally see discussions being held in Lojban in a group thread, > but these threads almost always die out rather quickly, with my guess to the > cause being the lack of interest in reading something that needs to be > translated before it can be understood. I admit to having been guilty of > this myself. I think the problem is not just that there's few people who speak proficiently, but also that the people who can speak are at all different levels of fluency. There are a very few people who can manage complicated conversations on a wide variety of topics: Gejyspa, Xorxes, Pierre, etc. They can and do have occasional conversations here, and they stay in Lojban even for instance in metadiscussions of each other's grammar and choice of words. The only problem is that once the conversation has been taken to that level, everyone else is unintentionally squeezed out. I've myself only recently gotten to the point where I can comfortably read the most advanced conversations here, so I'm very familiar with the feeling: "Oh great, a conversation in Lojban! Oh my, an entire complicated paragraph in Lojban. Oh god, my head, it hurts! Oh well, maybe I'd be able to respond to this once I practice more." I do think there are things we could do to lessen this problem. I try to speak as simply as possible when posting Lojban to the list, to broaden the possible audience of what I say. One suggestion I've been making forever, but that no one has ever taken up, is that when talking casually to a general audience we should use the long form for all but the most basic of lujvo. That is instead of "zdacne" we could say "zdanycenba". I was able to process "zdacne" when I read it on this list recently-- I know "zda" like the back of my hand, and I could guess "cne" in context after thinking for a second-- but I remember well what a painful slog all those short lujvo are when you're learning. I think the main reason people can't bear to use the long forms is aesthetics-- "zdacne" is a gorgeous word, and it's hard to speak Lojban with big ugly easy words once you know how to use those svelte classy ones. > Now, obviously, I'm guilty of the very thing I'm ranting about right now > with this message. My reasons for this are: I'm not currently proficient at > Lojban, this is a very long rant, and I highly doubt anyone would bother > reading this if it were in Lojban. .i da'i mi tcidu .i mi tcidu so'i clani poi lo jbopre cu finti ni'o do na kakne lo nu tavla fi lo pluja fo lo jbobau .i ku'i do kakne lo nu tavla fi lo sampu .i ko sampu casnu .i casnu lo se lifri be do .i na nitcu lo nu dukse pluja tavla troci > If you actually read this entire thing, you have my gratitude. If you wish > to respond, I would be very, very happy if you did so in Lojban. And if, in > future, you see something written in Lojban, here in these groups or > elsewhere, do us both a favour, and make your response be in the same > language. vi'o djica be lo nu jbotavla There, I did it, I followed my own advice and forced myself to spell out "tavla", even though "jbota'a" is so pretty. :> I've had a thought forever to start a list called "djelisri", day-stories. I thought of the lujvo "djelisri" a long time ago (when I was named "mungodjelis" from "mungojelly"). What it means is a story you tell about your day, about what happened to you in the past day and how you felt about it. We wouldn't really need a different list, we could just start posting our djelisri here, it would just require a little shift in the culture here. But I haven't been able to bring myself to just start randomly posting all the time little rants about my life here. It feels weird somehow to go to this place where people are usually discussing grammar and such and just start going, "I ate a banana! It was a yummy banana! Then I went to the park!" Maybe I should just get over that hesitancy and start inundating y'all with stories of my park-going banana-eating? Or maybe starting a new forum could help us break the ice? I'd be really interested in anyone's opinion on that because I'm quite undecided. I could be talked into ranting more in Lojban in this forum if that would really be appropriate. mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.