From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCyvMjkBBoEE3bW2w@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 16 06:40:15 2010 Received: from mail-bw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.214.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OwEh8-0007p6-6I; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:15 -0700 Received: by bwz4 with SMTP id 4sf250999bwz.16 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=MRmTi42gxgIWvhJgB6xQ3cHgflgaUdflJPDcEPHNrVE=; b=SWE/T6pEWATQjS1qKrL1oKtf0zHZuWs9gTC7mW4UHSWxwrM1yYOFqHOe86EdqeBvZ/ 79dnpmlar8TJYjKxhRoqHTiuz3rgOMDK49k7yQPj2iIfIsADoCSc72cqRlj9jzRhOtIL v42GXyESh6hUGIlYMV/71cnmBdZ0TnxugK9bE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Ve9WALkbjFVzCfokC7m2zFYBWGbs19asNH+HPOVgsCkUdvMYMUJI5ygAV5ZZo+VA9b ggBihk7XwHbx4SEpI/eEcp4ptIlELg4LzWOVDZK6K64d66FTZzg5+BWnlME/SK7ghERo +M8Tuojo/UP+yx3dM5c7iL/Kdr0b3pkjXsQ0o= Received: by 10.223.4.139 with SMTP id 11mr71785far.34.1284644402925; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.48.209 with SMTP id s17ls1052669bkf.2.p; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.47.162 with SMTP id n34mr177705bkf.16.1284644401713; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.47.162 with SMTP id n34mr177704bkf.16.1284644401678; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f43.google.com (mail-bw0-f43.google.com [209.85.214.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z25si1615116bku.5.2010.09.16.06.40.00; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.43; Received: by mail-bw0-f43.google.com with SMTP id 16so3255093bwz.2 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.126.92 with SMTP id b28mr2624535bks.47.1284644400123; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.153.219 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.153.219 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:40:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <898077.40849.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <729457.38076.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4C8DF3A5.3040702@lojban.org> <898077.40849.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 09:40:00 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dd8bf221ceec0490609527 --0016e6dd8bf221ceec0490609527 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The way I understand da'oi is that there is always an implicit la'a, pe'i, za'a or the like. If I see {.ui da'oi la .lindar.} I would probably expand this in my head to something like {pe'i la'a la lindar cinmo lo ka gleki} On Sep 16, 2010 9:34 AM, "John E Clifford" wrote: > Briefly, the notion of other-centric UI is absurd. UI are used to express > emotions, to grant certification, to make promises and so on. Thus they can > only be used by the persons performing these acts. The most another person can > do is either report that utterance of the word in question or (more daringly) > claim that the first person has the emotion or whatever or has performed the act > in question. Both of these are straightforward factual claims and, to the > extent that Lojban is based on logic, need to be expressed in normal assertive > ways: free standing sentences or non-restrictive relative clauses in such > sentences. 'da'oi ui lindbar' fails this test unless it is an approved > abbreviations for "Lindbar said "ui" about this subject" or "Lindbar is happy > about this subject." At the moment, this does not seem to be the case, and, > even if it is, it is very badly chose, since it does not *look* to be an > assertion. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com . > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6dd8bf221ceec0490609527 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The way I understand da'oi is that there is always an implicit la= 9;a, pe'i, za'a or the like.=A0 If I see {.ui da'oi la .lindar.= } I would probably expand this in my head to something like {pe'i la= 9;a la lindar cinmo lo ka gleki}

On Sep 16, 2010 9:34 AM, "John E Clifford" <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Briefly, the notion of other-centric UI is absurd. UI are u= sed to express
> emotions, to grant certification, to make promises and so on. Thus th= ey can
> only be used by the persons performing these acts. The mo= st another person can
> do is either report that utterance of the wo= rd in question or (more daringly)
> claim that the first person has the emotion or whatever or has perform= ed the act
> in question. Both of these are straightforward factual= claims and, to the
> extent that Lojban is based on logic, need to = be expressed in normal assertive
> ways: free standing sentences or non-restrictive relative clauses in s= uch
> sentences. 'da'oi ui lindbar' fails this test unl= ess it is an approved
> abbreviations for "Lindbar said "u= i" about this subject" or "Lindbar is happy
> about this subject." At the moment, this does not seem to be the= case, and,
> even if it is, it is very badly chose, since it does n= ot *look* to be an
> assertion.
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscri= bed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
> To post to this = group, send email to lojban@goog= legroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

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