From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDr2sjkBBoEmc_BYw@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 16 07:45:25 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OwFi3-0005vq-JA; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:45:24 -0700 Received: by wyb40 with SMTP id 40sf188531wyb.16 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:45:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=pwxgjq3ZQqH+xQlJTsWmpcqQyAmnI08ZxlicejJIvwA=; b=PUwe7flMCoeOlElSOcAmbLBdLYWtCbxPthDBxIZdD/E3828X3ZZmgmC7XUdaaY1Vdo lDB7JA27RuZNLyQ+WTiBATspkudDF7z7Nhwxhareqgx1mTRtm3zM3ODVQnd45lOffISQ uTMMXveUKoTAY8+AKUAmXDNFtep7UT/vY6IgY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=LxTKFR7gt4apOFnDIztpfcQIaMcX3HPwv0lpn3BMh6RW1y+8GwLHVpR0f0GcPBwk87 d8KDvuTCCUVCVVQAfzuVpjVHpv5a0vdLNx9pRN6vRzN2gLHKVwpYkmWpUDYQXP2QCzLz lbDQ7aLOck1WVObDiWhxMFfysRJrZA9h6n7uU= Received: by 10.216.145.9 with SMTP id o9mr742583wej.15.1284648299976; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:44:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.9.27 with SMTP id j27ls618300wbj.3.p; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.144.207 with SMTP id a15mr155411wbv.15.1284648298993; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.144.207 with SMTP id a15mr155410wbv.15.1284648298936; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f175.google.com (mail-wy0-f175.google.com [74.125.82.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id x33si1004575wbs.1.2010.09.16.07.44.57; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.175; Received: by wye20 with SMTP id 20so1404434wye.20 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:44:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.147.82 with SMTP id k18mr2936393wbv.64.1284648296191; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.151.203 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:44:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <898077.40849.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <729457.38076.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4C8DF3A5.3040702@lojban.org> <898077.40849.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:44:56 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:34 AM, John E Clifford wr= ote: > Briefly, the notion of other-centric UI is absurd. =A0UI are used to expr= ess > emotions, to grant certification, to make promises and so on. =A0Thus the= y can > only be used by =A0the persons performing these acts. =A0The most another= person > can do is either report that utterance of the word in question or (more > daringly) claim that the first person has the emotion or whatever or has > performed the act in question. We can also empathize, which is why we have "dai". If I see someone hurt themselves, I can put myself in their shoes and say "Ouch!", or ".oidai". But "dai" doesn't let you indicate who you're empathizing with, so that's where "da'oi" comes in, as I understand it. >=A0Both of these are straightforward factual > claims and, to the extent that Lojban is based on logic, need to be > expressed in normal assertive ways: free standing sentences or > non-restrictive relative clauses in such sentences. =A0'da'oi ui lindbar' > fails this test unless it is an approved abbreviations for "Lindbar said > "ui" about this subject" =A0or "Lindbar is happy about this subject." =A0= At the > moment, this does not seem to be the case, and, even if it is, it is very > badly chose, since it does not *look* to be an assertion. It's not an assertion. "ui da'oi lindar" would correspond (roughly) to something like "Yay for Lindar!" in English. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.