From lojban+bncCL-Ey5qiChCq3cjkBBoEC1rh7Q@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 16 07:50:45 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OwFnE-0002zI-Ou; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:50:41 -0700 Received: by vws6 with SMTP id 6sf943520vws.16 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:50:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:sender :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=d+H3wyOP7kvAcXECv1qXYwwflN9EzdwFo+fGWg45a94=; b=s8CTN4NpS+38NvY0n4/ux+pUYFa0oLvzTAOWawRSesFGkut/uzipNUUtEIXbr9YU+V cYcfbjzVbwksVF5kQkloDX1fblsW0m3E3jbkdSsJks370FxzVW+dCkhjbBon4Yo46NtS na5dsqqOwlCyhxZkhLIMaDuy7u0YxDTEEjPV8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=1BJPicVfVgb9NCoZ3hUTmitzGcZ08UOGHMv0n5qCoimDLe5OMKJR4c4/UzWi6c9Z1x XVaMRthGWICIP84Ii7Z3QpXXGts2RfZeU/sJrfItn35UMQhTBZMcq2QyI5f2kdcqrJj2 bFO7Qwfq9fUGihyK2iPLyLNfIg6aMEtukKaQA= Received: by 10.220.124.219 with SMTP id v27mr216473vcr.52.1284648618272; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:50:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.111.137 with SMTP id s9ls584038vcp.1.p; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.194.196 with SMTP id dz4mr878295vcb.1.1284648617187; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.194.196 with SMTP id dz4mr878294vcb.1.1284648617138; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f49.google.com (mail-vw0-f49.google.com [209.85.212.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id t19si352834vbq.2.2010.09.16.07.50.16; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.49; Received: by vws11 with SMTP id 11so1167515vws.36 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:50:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.124.74 with SMTP id t10mr1855406vcr.39.1284648615935; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.96.18 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 07:50:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <729457.38076.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4C8DF3A5.3040702@lojban.org> <898077.40849.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:50:15 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI From: Craig Daniel To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: craigbdaniel@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=craigbdaniel@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/9/16 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:34 AM, John E Clifford = wrote: >> Briefly, the notion of other-centric UI is absurd. =A0UI are used to exp= ress >> emotions, to grant certification, to make promises and so on. =A0Thus th= ey can >> only be used by =A0the persons performing these acts. =A0The most anothe= r person >> can do is either report that utterance of the word in question or (more >> daringly) claim that the first person has the emotion or whatever or has >> performed the act in question. > > We can also empathize, which is why we have "dai". If I see someone > hurt themselves, I can put myself in their shoes and say "Ouch!", or > ".oidai". But "dai" doesn't let you indicate who you're empathizing > with, so that's where "da'oi" comes in, as I understand it. But ".oidai" doesn't mean "somebody else feels pain," it means "I feel pain, empathetically." This is normally pretty much the same, but as far as I can tell it doesn't actually require anybody else to feel any pain - for a somewhat crude example, imagine that you are male and you see one of those naked classical statues have its junk broken off. I at least am likely to cringe empathetically at the perceived painfulness of the situation, even though I'd be pretty shocked to learn that the statue had any actual feelings on the matter at all. - mi'e .kreig.daniyl. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.