From lojban+bncCL-Ey5qiChDB6MjkBBoE5vg-rA@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 16 08:14:30 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OwGAH-0003jP-Ng; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:14:30 -0700 Received: by wyb40 with SMTP id 40sf197108wyb.16 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:14:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:sender :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Olwmuol+sc8/dIOI9S4dIMpFpYqFIfZHhFyJ0opJzL4=; b=VriFNTmPwjq/55u0UjdLJC7aW5ZhHLLTj6XJivG8amAfbSGxFNTF+hvnRbWcuC9vW3 beQ16PEERbY4lhOo9s67o5Rqn4rKTpT1Kye7WNyw47JuVGwSCEk5FO1jfio8lM/V2YmE wCrEabzqPKM+PLVWeggvnO4EEUULzttaHD9/A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=EbfhOxgBikKumibxmKe1NVqB/2Ox05N973CLFdvppniTZVUDY7AGm+HjrQ0tlY9yPy 83LGVosP8Gt+FifN0m2vXW2TTS8clK6z+AUlWTenbIdZV2EZZ1i2M0XvbJWheuPXSPdb cmjqia/6edXZ73GU0qsvB4aHMcrqM6i4OM79M= Received: by 10.216.144.25 with SMTP id m25mr766232wej.24.1284650049463; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:14:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.41.69 with SMTP id n5ls718661ebe.2.p; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.55.144 with SMTP id u16mr862985ebg.6.1284650048101; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.55.144 with SMTP id u16mr862982ebg.6.1284650047897; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ew0-f51.google.com (mail-ew0-f51.google.com [209.85.215.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r57si2981146eeh.1.2010.09.16.08.14.06; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.51; Received: by mail-ew0-f51.google.com with SMTP id 21so830544ewy.10 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:14:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.34.148 with SMTP id l20mr2728876ebd.1.1284650046715; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.96.18 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:14:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <729457.38076.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4C8DF3A5.3040702@lojban.org> <898077.40849.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:14:06 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI From: Craig Daniel To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: craigbdaniel@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=craigbdaniel@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/9/16 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Craig Daniel wrote: >> >> But ".oidai" doesn't mean "somebody else feels pain," it means "I feel >> pain, empathetically." This is normally pretty much the same, but as >> far as I can tell it doesn't actually require anybody else to feel any >> pain - for a somewhat crude example, imagine that you are male and you >> see one of those naked classical statues have its junk broken off. I >> at least am likely to cringe empathetically at the perceived >> painfulness of the situation, even though I'd be pretty shocked to >> learn that the statue had any actual feelings on the matter at all. > > Of course. That's how I understand "dai" (and "da'oi") to work. .oi > da'oi lo roknau. Yeah, I see no problem with "da'oi" working like that, but it does mean it can't correspond to "pe'i la'a lo roknau cinmo lo ka cortu", since I'm pretty sure the statue feels no such thing. Similarly, I'm pretty sure I can .ui da'oi a dead guy, .ue da'oi somebody who hasn't heard the news yet, and .o'a da'oi a fictional character who doesn't exist in the same world as I do. - mi'e .kreig.daniyl. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.