From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDvncnkBBoEqUxAOQ@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 16 10:08:22 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OwHwX-0002YK-V2; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:08:22 -0700 Received: by gxk9 with SMTP id 9sf1419754gxk.16 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:08:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=CG38JqFhUsDJZHffuTXeQRKLrXRQlFx3p3PA7gKqyXY=; b=OLVLaIShsLMVC+6Bmj92hIq132Pa7TEyIXUBEimEAwKJmKWLo3Vgf4bu9BOBPE4ZTC CXf6WHAQoJfhwT24Zp07/sBL+H5BMWy5WgwgAtsw7LZ8diwmzWYYvHDl6whK2BgNUQKq 09J+F4/dRyo5R+tVmE5p1zI3AA2/zD/vb3yYk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=KSGwhoPKprepvuOPTDFXIrDbphbIGIl26wAghHX6bKL7DJ1OkUHDeZfpGmKPOJLii7 Yi2GR/HKc/PXyoTamMxnZYNpTDt+zwBdVaBWEw/+HjWTU3HbjFXMxc8ewc+SYlNCOFN6 J8WpYMQl67lH3+fFbrpVjoLBf7kb/4mUulVdM= Received: by 10.91.16.10 with SMTP id t10mr525224agi.39.1284656879545; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.27.13 with SMTP id a13ls1061740yba.6.p; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.216.6 with SMTP id o6mr884732ybg.46.1284656761452; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.216.6 with SMTP id o6mr884731ybg.46.1284656761422; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.120]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id l2si2654211ybn.7.2010.09.16.10.06.00; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.120 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.120; Received: (qmail 4980 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Sep 2010 17:05:59 -0000 Message-ID: <860512.99501.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: BUdS95gVM1n6Ree2K9K0KYFIefeMBatFgwtx8UX_HpYQupg 7RN._NhjDK_bG1Q_gWBew9CWSVWtd_V1iITY7kGI_Pzy8bJVymTaXyADr4Fn Avhv7g9YwpBRq_aeWLQC9iUg8iavj.w_6iZ47fxyMbT_CJEpcDxRVO7k0d0N .YasokDFIrE9j3c0AOVZ.RboY32E1gxpRwdCGvh4MVi1l3cbFXuxHr2C6.fF rVtimoflwJ00kULbFYIEIJuSr0jNNyC4.bd0BUe4jgYj.NckUmb8TaSYXglu ZSePPMii7.eji.axRT8_hdZbT7GkPiOIf8Gmp66APzdFcmWwZB1pXVnw- Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:05:59 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <729457.38076.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4C8DF3A5.3040702@lojban.org> <898077.40849.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:05:59 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.120 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sympathetic and empathetic pains (etc.) are very real; a person experience them and can express this experience, perhaps in a way different from a personal pain. His expression of this pain might even include a recognition of whose pain he is sym/empathizing with (though this is getting a little cloudy) -- even if that person is fictional, unknown, and so on. But, in using 'da'oi uu Lindar', is the speaker actually experiencing a happiness that picks up on Lindar's? The examples suggest not. The point remains that UI can be usefully uttered only by the person having the emotion (etc.), whatever its source. So talk of other-centric UI reains absurd; the center is always on the experiencer expressing his experience, whatever its source. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.