From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDO78nkBBoE-1JRUA@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 16 13:02:40 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OwKfC-000705-MU; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:02:40 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf1397262gya.16 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:02:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=fPjM/0oXYYaHIJlVDXHmCwVAhcdmgWzSgL/2/B1Sz8Y=; b=wVg7ro+VCbck9z47Nh6Ld2S5wPcAConzjwqmrKVeT21NRx+/Z8+C6tuZiLA1ieXckX GFBD6ZdPxvr4h4dxM7hax2oD2b5IURDCBASQ8l13b0E1IV6qG+NscUHY+8llgh1nj/wo D/DQs2ssDlF8yQQ9jttNfqEFHxhj9o/RnWTzI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=uRZnVb+vmJ2/f6Qoqn2vmqZ3A0f9PStB/8NlvrivihPPjqWs3EoFCeU5cbbumBwDIX lfk/INrZgH85ZrTThTmbOw7QtPUBRg9Qi3IzXQdFZBnylgsQjInCx9U6V0LU8w2HajAM ggHi0s1OeoYQ+5EYLhN5iWq/urpth+iYjP36U= Received: by 10.101.142.33 with SMTP id u33mr187504ann.2.1284667342607; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.131.11 with SMTP id i11ls454681ann.5.p; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.190.18 with SMTP id n18mr2939733anf.8.1284667342079; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.190.18 with SMTP id n18mr2939731anf.8.1284667342043; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.121]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id 11si2531062ano.3.2010.09.16.13.02.20; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.121 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.121; Received: (qmail 95226 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Sep 2010 20:02:20 -0000 Message-ID: <364433.94354.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: XkX8RygVM1n9sv761rb8qhu1vSyi9yfCu4AyUT7kl6KeJEc W_mBKCk3BuFgfZmMUxn1tYoW6WJB21P0PDnJxvu3jP0NNoKOIE05o6eYNC8D 5S.e4_fvGipcdFen0.QQa_1W8hpWt7byeD5X7fb12HVKQNLl2sD7Ds8x8mYE hbdiBBveLC2V3ngGFZIU2yPL53n_GTzUwAvTlIxwpnbdG_6HFEn4YOHYeYgA hnXu9bIrfGKSNHcKXu1lPuNGY1I4szxURkRuAgyq_eItDEWZ4GC_7x2G9uRp POxi4wvcIeXyBYUKtR4E.uU6iatYEpPAou40NEOlXOFm9oxMJk4kFZX7htA2 7jYeh3UmUnhHE3juXVqWFB5NqBeat6ASsUh7pWENB8OhlbIviJg-- Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:02:20 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <729457.38076.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4C8DF3A5.3040702@lojban.org> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:02:20 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.121 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Here are some signs that what is intended here is not expressions of empathetic emotions (etc.) 1. show no signs that the speaker, whoever that may be, shares Lindar's pity. It is translated by a non-restrictive relative clause. 2. Ditto, though here I suppose this could be a sharing, but the translation appears to rule that out. 3. Ditto. Here, of course, the speaker has no grounds for even displaced pride, given the conditions on pride. Maybe happiness or some such. But that is not what is indicated nor how the whole is translated. 4. Ditto. Again no signs of empathy, nothing expressive, just a relative clause. Did I mention that relative clauses are the wrong sort of things to be here? ----- Original Message ---- From: Stela Selckiku To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, September 14, 2010 1:39:37 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Lindar wrote: > > By the way, I like da'oi a lot. So it's {.uuda'oi .selkik.} for if I > feel pity toward selkik? > I'm using that! No, that's if I feel pity. If you're the one pitying me then you'd say: 1.la .selkik. .uu da'oi .lindar. cu co'e Selkik, pitied by Lindar, does something. More examples: 2, lo verba .ui da'oi mamta cu kelci Mom's happy that the kid plays. 3. do finti lo melbi .o'a da'oi do You made something beautiful, you must be proud. l4.o mlatu cu citka lo kukte .oi da'oi cipni The cat eats something delicious, which is painful to the bird. mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.