From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxDrvYvkBBoEw-yYAg@googlegroups.com Sat Sep 04 17:06:22 2010 Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Os2kT-0001jx-Vg; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:06:21 -0700 Received: by pxi13 with SMTP id 13sf168717pxi.16 for ; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:06:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=5r+lICeDmFk0K/Xam6S95LMjXUtckefh1Vo73kmO1s4=; b=EaKFw0FRISmaUToqhlZFY5RTBd78luFlk5eFTrdp5HktibgSfrdCmxuJmJno3E1Scq aJOjcTX0jMfiqNwHKhMa7Ur75d1Wr0zcyK8573K8ZJSEsYXB4JwwbWXTRIbbkgGeL89U RvnwivRBa6vy3mfz2atPQu5oBnplQSqNCcu0g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; b=dbIPrTNsTSb6La6S+q1KD0uL3ggaSBVgQFNZgqRIwgDfq+mimQwyP7OWfqEsd2rXfq c/FpLN0xCShk/TjsO0LuDjhdWsQZiB4TcKeoYXcWqNJmSwTqMuGEjH+BpZxAPA61AqyV MJsMEzo6YuSSnPw+Ne5X2/pBKmMhsmmXQg/sA= Received: by 10.115.101.15 with SMTP id d15mr195229wam.0.1283645163959; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:06:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.115.98.19 with SMTP id a19ls3482264wam.1.p; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.37.2 with SMTP id k2mr831977wak.44.1283645163080; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.37.2 with SMTP id k2mr831976wak.44.1283645163027; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r11si7108521waj.0.2010.09.04.17.06.02; Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.122; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=GEzFJpP6HXovyI85TcS9Ux7UhVlisfy/nbtVStNiOWY= c=1 sm=0 a=qk8G5I-QGekA:10 a=ORa4HqFjfvEA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:17 a=M_ugGzYXcA9SO2WgRtwA:9 a=wXezP1BqZ_82VRsB5PwA:7 a=R77h5pd2ZP-zjnn9FxZ-STnwdJcA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 71.71.198.100 Received: from [71.71.198.100] ([71.71.198.100:49964] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 6D/E1-00327-9EED28C4; Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:06:01 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408331A22 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2010 20:05:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] .i ki'u lo cribe mi na sipna Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 20:05:55 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <022fd822-ce8f-4d77-84c5-f828612bb81f@x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201009042005.56862.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday 04 September 2010 11:42:22 Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > mu'i ma do na nelci loi kabri gi'e na se mikce > > How do you deal with the special na-rule there? Move the conjunction to the top level: mu'i ma do na nelci loi kabri .ije mu'i ma do na se mikce Convert the negation into "naku": naku mu'i ma do nelci loi kabri .ije naku mu'i ma do se mikce Since the bear is not the reason for either of them, you can again answer "= lo=20 cribe". In English, the construction "I didn't do X because Y" is ambiguous. It can= =20 mean "mi ki'u ybu naku gasnu xy" or "mi naku gasnu xy ki'u ybu" or "mi gasn= u=20 xy ki'unai ybu" (not to mention the other ways of translating "because"). Pierre. --=20 The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.