From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhCLrOPkBBoEMRSWFg@googlegroups.com Tue Sep 21 08:58:32 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oy5EV-00040s-IX; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:58:31 -0700 Received: by qyk12 with SMTP id 12sf9498475qyk.16 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:58:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wggJmZh1lqhIrZX1X6CCrpVjen1/hXjLVI6GGgmdZbc=; b=kEDbXYgQhAQMK/iqueB5QDzDjS7ql4ZPSsJm0GhyZiPAdZ9e2LY9jSJ5tvQalqOD1m yEZFvl47BBVBn8JHpuZrYqUpnPVPr4iiBQ87PjS6szAztu8LPOm1mVXbW8YhrT+MsqXr a1OAPV/Awboqeasv3IZoZ6wf2b46oPwsbfnPg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=xF24Oiw0Q6w0vhlXKGh2I40vinYgG/bV0985Hq//uru2ih8u6gCBGH56AWO3yfUd3L /MZbaQXKEIV6fWHfeuVubWDFaNoUTBcaG7Co8ZrALDLLAisSnvRm164VedOT7pB3bs+9 UN0ntrdxpP+Re1BTnAJHN+QSOUkfUzaWdAU4U= Received: by 10.229.43.219 with SMTP id x27mr706895qce.46.1285084683274; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:58:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.173.155 with SMTP id p27ls2464635qcz.3.p; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.228.132 with SMTP id je4mr939781qcb.10.1285084681378; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.228.132 with SMTP id je4mr939779qcb.10.1285084681341; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qw0-f45.google.com (mail-qw0-f45.google.com [209.85.216.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l26si4954658qck.9.2010.09.21.08.58.00; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.45; Received: by mail-qw0-f45.google.com with SMTP id 4so4816033qwk.4 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:58:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.251.210 with SMTP id mt18mr7371816qcb.151.1285084679432; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.85.3 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:57:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:57:57 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] ma krinu lonu lo jbopre na tavla fo la.lojban. ne'i levi snustu | Why aren't we speaking in Lojban in here? From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > .oicairo'e lu setese li'u .i mu'i ma do cusku lo tcetce pluja valsi .i mi > nitcu lo nu ciska lo simsa be zoi .bla x1 frati x2 x3 .bla .ije linji > tepixra tezu'e lo nu mi djuno lo sumti .yyy cnici to ma valsi toi > I know I messed that up so bau glico: > ouch my head at "setese". =A0Why would you say such complicated words. = =A0I > needed to write "x1 frati x2 x3" and draw lines to understand the argumen= t > order. > I use constructions like "setese" for three reasons -- 1) when I'm translating and trying to mimic the word order of the velfanva 2) When I'm trying to emphasize one sumti over another (it's paradigmatic that earlier sumti places seem to be perceived as "more important" than later ones), and/or 3) If I have a complex sumti, I'd rather throw it at the end of the sentence rather than have to put a whole bunch of terminators so that you can "pop up" a half dozen levels and have to remember "what was the main selbri again? Oh, yeah..." before getting to the next sumti. That's a lot of processing power to ask of a human listener/reader. (I tend to write lojban like I speak English -- with lots of subrodinate cruft) --gejyspa > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Stela Selckiku wrot= e: >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Jonathan Jones >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I think the problem is not just that there's few people who speak >>> proficiently, but also that the people who can speak are at all >>> different levels of fluency. =A0There are a very few people who can >>> manage complicated conversations on a wide variety of topics: Gejyspa, >>> Xorxes, Pierre, etc. >> >> >> do pukta'a mi .i ku'i lo du'u go'o cu mukti lo nu mi na pu=A0 spuda lo v= i nu >> casnu .i mi setese frati lo nu clani lojbo bo=A0 selsku=A0 kei lo simsa = be lo me >> do mei be'o noi se skicu fo zoi gy.=A0 "Oh great, a conversation in Lojb= an! >> Oh my, an entire complicated paragraph in Lojban.=A0 Oh god,my head, it >> hurts!" gy. to ko zgana lo nu lo stedu be mi cu spoja toi .i mi nitcu lo= nu >> jdice lo du'u mutce frili fa lo nu tcidu le lojbo kei ji kau lo nu tcidu= lo >> drata selmri .i mi nitcu lo za'i lo besna be mi cu klina pe'a kei .e lo = za'i >> mi mulno cikna je jundi .i la'a cu'i mi nitcu tu'a lo kafxu'i .i va'o lo= nu >> ro lo tcini cu prane kei mi tcidu lo lojbo >> >> ni'o mi kakne lo nu cusku bau la lojban sekai lo ka milxe filsmu .e lo k= a >> frili .iku'i lo nu tcidu na roroi frili mi >> >> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa >> --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. 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