From lojban+bncCJrK5PGGEBC2wuPkBBoETbaF8A@googlegroups.com Tue Sep 21 09:46:12 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oy5yd-0006Ps-3P; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:46:11 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf1554518wwe.16 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:45:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:from:organization :to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :x-interia-antivirus:x-emid:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=iwCpUMGOi1ARHCOtctKkU93ics8I7g6vIWkW/9me2gs=; b=628xgfrmDKlTlEJ+vDzcjbWOcMjnAjn0ZUz5DHO7ArHW1eEq0RD+pZou17WBlRxKfp PvGQb+7BmiyoUzHNI9P0/S/PMapumjY0vka84GPk0HYyAM4XtGNeWYyvDdgUcgdK5wbN /Vid56jWEkrYZYSSspq/sfGR9HQzow+6gSVTY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:from:organization:to:subject:date :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:x-interia-antivirus:x-emid :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; b=rNXKEWQPr5oF8eqLMDW2x8GyjDyWXbXibVjKTxulHcOVrYF+w35QZ8d6pUkQL250RQ kBpRk/EHeoGo5cx9ug7ZDqmiYDtN3/7O3AuIXZMzfRJPVtW8+pPPNZ+DYWTz+XDtf9zI GePgfcdH3oqbm277qa6Iz1lm1u5T22deViGNo= Received: by 10.216.144.38 with SMTP id m38mr1971863wej.14.1285087542330; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:45:42 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.43.207 with SMTP id x15ls2507447ebe.1.p; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.10.4 with SMTP id n4mr1241489ebn.24.1285087540824; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.10.4 with SMTP id n4mr1241488ebn.24.1285087540800; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (smtpo.poczta.interia.pl [217.74.65.205]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id b5si9679879eei.4.2010.09.21.09.45.40; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jezuch@interia.pl designates 217.74.65.205 as permitted sender) client-ip=217.74.65.205; Received: by smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (INTERIA.PL, from userid 502) id 4ED041A42C76; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:45:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from zx-spectrum-1 (c204.idd156.nettete.pl [77.79.204.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.interia.pl (INTERIA.PL) with ESMTPSA for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:45:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jezuch by zx-spectrum-1 with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oy64x-0003S1-3U for lojban@googlegroups.com; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:52:27 +0200 From: Krzysztof Sobolewski Organization: Sobole To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] ma krinu lonu lo jbopre na tavla fo la.lojban. ne'i levi snustu | Why aren't we speaking in Lojban in here? Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:52:22 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.33.7; KDE/4.4.5; x86_64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart3859798.F40htkG0WJ"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201009211852.26915.jezuch@interia.pl> X-Interia-Antivirus: OK X-EMID: dd48acc X-Original-Sender: jezuch@interia.pl X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jezuch@interia.pl designates 217.74.65.205 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jezuch@interia.pl Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , --nextPart3859798.F40htkG0WJ Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dnia wtorek, 21 wrze=B6nia 2010 o 17:57:57 Michael Turniansky napisa=B3(a): > I use constructions like "setese" for three reasons -- 1) when I'm > translating and trying to mimic the word order of the velfanva 2) When > I'm trying to emphasize one sumti over another (it's paradigmatic that > earlier sumti places seem to be perceived as "more important" than > later ones), and/or 3) If I have a complex sumti, I'd rather throw it > at the end of the sentence rather than have to put a whole bunch of > terminators so that you can "pop up" a half dozen levels and have to > remember "what was the main selbri again? Oh, yeah..." before getting > to the next sumti. That's a lot of processing power to ask of a human > listener/reader. (I tend to write lojban like I speak English -- with > lots of subrodinate cruft) > --gejyspa All of these can also be achieved by using FA, right? What I find a little = unsettling with "setese" etc. is that conversion does not merely reorder th= e places, but creates a completely new relation. "se klama" is subtly but i= mportantly different from "klama". It's easy to get with "se", but how shou= ld I interpret it with "setese"? =2D-=20 Ecce Jezuch "Lying on your bed, Examining my head This is the part of me that hates (...) Hey! This was my life" - D. Mustaine --nextPart3859798.F40htkG0WJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkyY4scACgkQy0fq9RM+TxhZxgCZAWDTtzS363oCE/Y6TKSdDsZ0 ihEAn1fF7eO6inFTKNRelg55Hs7jl2G5 =YMun -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart3859798.F40htkG0WJ--