From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDbl-TkBBoEHisRiw@googlegroups.com Tue Sep 21 12:47:56 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oy8oh-000704-Aw; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:47:55 -0700 Received: by qyk12 with SMTP id 12sf9736282qyk.16 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:47:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=bqdUcL4rNEKYqPbSin69CPpu181WQLwXptr5yk4WFRw=; b=3mbgNR/YBYnAadMAq5jTcaGkUCdZ1+Q7AV6SsFqD5cGzHjJUSeqmyrflyKkiaHSX01 PDPqkqS7FUCrH9FWkOavc2kRx+PqRgex+4Kwo3kkWHzgG4M5RiyRF46hewFCi5yLWfVX nHeyfHwe4jwWf0oRijbfN2deF72dsD3mwbgTE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=M2i5PGNi0cjOXV5iqXwfPLkRLKqxoBQEpkoA1o78/k9KiMKmJ+EtJXkuRqo79oDoea 5pVGsLI7thwbZ5kfiSg9cql0j7c54/aNuqYtPrJZFPIMYZja/miAHZK37o4Jq/qKosD2 LKGvIH2nvzYBl15fDoVwK9iLxB8spMTXRRoaQ= Received: by 10.229.175.200 with SMTP id bb8mr767701qcb.35.1285098459256; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:47:39 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.207.84 with SMTP id fx20ls2559270qcb.0.p; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.249.14 with SMTP id mi14mr979783qcb.9.1285098458628; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.249.14 with SMTP id mi14mr979782qcb.9.1285098458166; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f182.google.com (mail-qy0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id mz6si5075858qcb.13.2010.09.21.12.47.37; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.182; Received: by mail-qy0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 4so6806286qyk.20 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:47:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.28.139 with SMTP id m11mr5882941qac.350.1285098456984; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.85.3 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:47:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201009211505.50100.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201009211505.50100.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:47:36 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] ma krinu lonu lo jbopre na tavla fo la.lojban. ne'i levi snustu | Why aren't we speaking in Lojban in here? From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cdfac07af040490ca4d84 --0015175cdfac07af040490ca4d84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Tuesday 21 September 2010 11:57:57 Michael Turniansky wrote: > > I use constructions like "setese" for three reasons -- 1) when I'm > > translating and trying to mimic the word order of the velfanva 2) When > > I'm trying to emphasize one sumti over another (it's paradigmatic that > > earlier sumti places seem to be perceived as "more important" than > > later ones), and/or 3) If I have a complex sumti, I'd rather throw it > > at the end of the sentence rather than have to put a whole bunch of > > terminators so that you can "pop up" a half dozen levels and have to > > remember "what was the main selbri again? Oh, yeah..." before getting > > to the next sumti. That's a lot of processing power to ask of a human > > listener/reader. (I tend to write lojban like I speak English -- with > > lots of subrodinate cruft) > > I'd do all this with combinations of SE and FA. When I would use "setese" > is > when I'm joining two selbri with a conjunction and the place structures > don't > match, so argument 2 of one selbri is argument 3 of the other, and vice > versa. > Oh, yeah, I do that, too... Add that as reason 4 :-). I'm not saying I never use FA constructs. In fact, I usually do. I just made a stylistic choice this time not to. *shrug* --gy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0015175cdfac07af040490ca4d84 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.n= u> wrote:
On Tuesday 21 September 2010 11:57:57 Michael Turniansky = wrote:
> =A0 I use constructions like "setese" for three re= asons -- 1) when I'm
> translating and trying to mimic the word o= rder of the velfanva 2) When
> I'm trying to emphasize one sumti over another (it's paradigma= tic that
> earlier sumti places seem to be perceived as "more im= portant" than
> later ones), and/or 3) If I have a complex sumti= , I'd rather throw it
> at the end of the sentence rather than have to put a whole bunch of> terminators so that you can "pop up" a half dozen levels an= d have to
> remember "what was the main selbri again? =A0Oh, yea= h..." before getting
> to the next sumti. =A0That's a lot of processing power to ask of a= human
> listener/reader. =A0(I tend to write lojban like I speak Eng= lish -- with
> lots of subrodinate cruft)

I'd do all= this with combinations of SE and FA. When I would use "setese" i= s
when I'm joining two selbri with a conjunction and the place structures= don't
match, so argument 2 of one selbri is argument 3 of the other= , and vice
versa.
=A0 Oh, yeah, I do that, too...=A0 Add that as reason 4 :-).=A0 I'= m not saying I never use FA constructs.=A0 In fact, I usually do.=A0 I just= made a stylistic choice this time not to.=A0 *shrug*
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gy

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