From lojban+bncCK30vq5WEJiS7-QEGgTAM0y_@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 23 14:39:53 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OytW8-0007lP-TW; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:39:52 -0700 Received: by pzk7 with SMTP id 7sf548786pzk.16 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:39:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding; bh=O4B4NuQfWEpN8lXdBBaiI1Mw5RBhELV58xNk+vccGJk=; b=oiZpLhvZas7gQOEjog6PSKDtE7EcmIJRJ62UDVbcrxEj7Lv4mYE4JlW/Ma9txrTjT7 fRXCWGq1qhAeW0RkX4Vv24b+zZaeGMoIJYxnKhrNuUgtUYti5z3PNZNee0wMZ880pqbT B2E+sIfW+mlFOxd4s8XPW8G7/MJqQAhHC+ULg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding; b=P1o0cdNiPZ4qs8UVcb1LWPyIuUnf0a9eSHE2F4kOcAGvHIlzVR1Zkjhv+FBA6/diRB 4aQuZSOsSpe0HxrqxhkzFVDc3ITMn5EQEiooO73ouLigSXJ7aG2Z6/YpHaSHYNHEmzle cw+CdqZpXR+R2f4Bh908FmCuOSLoH1tjMrwrE= Received: by 10.142.156.11 with SMTP id d11mr154356wfe.13.1285277976754; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.55.16 with SMTP id d16ls1573800wfa.2.p; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.48.1 with SMTP id v1mr452339wfv.4.1285277976143; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.48.1 with SMTP id v1mr452338wfv.4.1285277976116; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (173-13-139-234-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a8si1461809wfg.2.2010.09.23.14.39.36; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 173.13.139.234 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OytVv-0007ko-CY for lojban@googlegroups.com; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:39:35 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:39:35 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Alice - the xorlo version Message-ID: <20100923213935.GS30871@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100923200644.GI30871@digitalkingdom.org> <20100923201719.GJ30871@digitalkingdom.org> <20100923203358.GL30871@digitalkingdom.org> <20100923211040.GN30871@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 173.13.139.234 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 06:34:27PM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Veijo Vilva > wrote: > > 2010/9/24 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > > > >> OK, I ask again, what would you use for the wanted sense of > >> "tired" in Lojban? (She has been sitting there bored stiff for > >> a while, and is beginning to get tired of that.) > > > > How about selfanza? >=20 > "co'a selfanza" makes more sense than "co'a to'e se cinri" to me, > but I still think "tatpi" is closer to what she is feeling than > "selfanza". I see "selfanza" more as a reaction to something > sudden, while "tatpi" is the result of a long process. I'm telling you that I would never back-translate {tatpi} as "tired of". When asked to backtranslate what you have by Lindar, what I came up with was "Alice began to be tired by sitting on the river bank next to her sister and doing nothing.", which is not at all the same as being tired *of* same. So, you can keep doing what you're doing, but I, at least, am not going to understand it very well. Ah, here's the crux of it I think: tatpi has "x1 needs/wants rest"; clearly, resting wasn't going to solve this problem, as resting *was the problem*. That's exactly it: tatpi is for problems that resting/ceasing doing something will solve, and this isn't one of them. -Robin --=20 http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.