From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDywO_kBBoE-p5EhQ@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 23 16:19:35 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oyv4c-000874-2f; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:19:35 -0700 Received: by wyb40 with SMTP id 40sf523603wyb.16 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:19:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8zP9al+M+y+Pf2jHUrHM9HYgwDZ+8e4BXGQlu8TULPo=; b=7M6gquCeVMzjifcAe0odNtyWWJ0YiFJUKhP/cTK5WfVPtmmjb8lQQsRz+eTyZYFHcS wrrwwkt58SOLYVA7qLXxI2hNg5KhEqkveWGItn7O/nuYMA+87QqSNC+/nItqaIoRzBHE fx8c27h/I6Bkzc2ALZUjD84fGVv4Dffhl0jzM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=EtRKY1t7rHrCpwi0fIhgH5kg1EMzR9Yhrr0TE3JwwCcTFctOGTfN1adDv83CzDmW1a F4DZdcB5Zku7JLUYiiPfc0mY+Lf7xm6KRMhks9Agj2REScLjhV8ad8W//YpjuhsRy7wf tFrdh5pwyaxpzAP2KHHifDm5uO6kpFzUwddVE= Received: by 10.216.144.25 with SMTP id m25mr555270wej.9.1285283954729; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:19:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.237.165 with SMTP id y37ls659936weq.1.p; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.171.137 with SMTP id r9mr503818wel.9.1285283953770; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.171.137 with SMTP id r9mr503817wel.9.1285283953753; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f51.google.com (mail-ww0-f51.google.com [74.125.82.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r4si464875wec.6.2010.09.23.16.19.12; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.51; Received: by wwb28 with SMTP id 28so2203924wwb.20 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:19:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.37.8 with SMTP id v8mr2328288wbd.37.1285283952590; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.130 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:19:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100923213935.GS30871@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100923200644.GI30871@digitalkingdom.org> <20100923201719.GJ30871@digitalkingdom.org> <20100923203358.GL30871@digitalkingdom.org> <20100923211040.GN30871@digitalkingdom.org> <20100923213935.GS30871@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 20:19:12 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Alice - the xorlo version From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > I'm telling you that I would never back-translate {tatpi} as "tired > of". I think the difference between English "tired from X" and "tired of X" is that in the first case X is over and in the second case X is still ongoing. So I would translate "tatpi lo nu ba'o co'e" as "tired from having Xed" and "tatpi lo nu ca'o co'e"a "tired of Xing". If you are running, you can say "I'm tired of running, let's stop for a while". If you have been running, you can say "I'm tired from having been running, so I won't go out". > When asked to backtranslate what you have by Lindar, what I > came up with was "Alice began to be tired by sitting on the river > bank next to her sister and doing nothing.", which is not at all the > same as being tired *of* same. I guess "lo nu zutse" can be interpreted as "having sat" or as "be sitting", but if you interpret that she is still sitting there I think the more idiomatic English form is "tired of". > So, you can keep doing what you're doing, but I, at least, am not > going to understand it very well. > > Ah, here's the crux of it I think: tatpi has "x1 needs/wants rest"; > clearly, resting wasn't going to solve this problem, as resting *was > the problem*. =A0That's exactly it: tatpi is for problems that > resting/ceasing doing something will solve, and this isn't one of > them. Well, falling asleep was the solution, and that's a kind of resting. When x2 is over, what x1 needs/wants may be to rest, but when x2 is still ongoing, what x1 needs/wants most, even before resting, is that x2 stops. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.