From lojban+bncCM-P6d3GHBCxivDkBBoEI75PwA@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 23 18:56:19 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OyxWK-0003yO-Lk; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:56:19 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf536674wwe.16 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:56:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=AhtSlIw4It13877PXWq7/cxjw4NVJSXBUKNEJ/C8k1g=; b=Siot9zMRVwx1InSV1P/CXg8XhiA772lKVNUTZnS4tfnj7fP1SNJJyOrwOFhYqLYerO xK7mST/1kBdVZ/pOxQqJ4t/C1rSPXzbrr6kc8l+Qe7aJk0J0rbMCzmbmcSSe+7KpqR9y K1wL4JSPgpfRg9cOtq25UwmogFdhCGFlNGZq0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=5U7FCh9QtNqHvehKS5fdf79V/666VbsK1kNuTPcf1xauCzXk1lzFUZ5GgjGo34EKvc Cqen88qHzrqH7mGzOEtlcCJGAyytZnK5pP1UOgfjC+oad8d9iK3COll6XrdFV9RELAwE 5qBCekwxGN5aMMigIz5UJTY9hv/2JXYwX50oo= Received: by 10.216.145.97 with SMTP id o75mr560244wej.16.1285293361757; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:56:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.92.203 with SMTP id s11ls572307wbm.1.p; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.136.8 with SMTP id p8mr133536wbt.28.1285293359910; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.136.8 with SMTP id p8mr133535wbt.28.1285293359890; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f175.google.com (mail-wy0-f175.google.com [74.125.82.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q13si548081wbs.4.2010.09.23.18.55.58; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of leos.molas@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.175; Received: by wyb29 with SMTP id 29so3742wyb.6 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.35.77 with SMTP id t55mr8950859wea.0.1285293357918; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:55:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.188.199 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:55:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20100923013302.GA16099@koganusan.lb.shawcable.net> From: Leo Molas Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 22:55:37 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Quotation mark argument. To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: leos.molas@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of leos.molas@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=leos.molas@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Adam D. Lopresto wro= te: > To summarize briefly, audio-visual isomorphism is not the idea that we > can always translate between text and audio with no loss of detail, > because there are many free variations in both forms, which are > impossible to render in the other. Instead, to me at least, audio-visual > isomorphism is this: > > 1) Lojban is fundamentally a sequence of *words* in the abstract. There > is no meaning to a text that is not derived from those words. The problem of this is that this is *not* an isomorphism, but an epi, as I said. It's just a matter of words, since I do agree and like the actual way lojban transforms from and into speech, but it's incorrect to call it isomorphism. > mu'omi'e.leos.molas. --=20 My Lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com/ My personal =B5blog: http://leomolas.tumblr.com/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.