From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCS2PLkBBoECf8gYQ@googlegroups.com Fri Sep 24 06:48:18 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oz8dK-0001Df-LV; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:48:18 -0700 Received: by gxk9 with SMTP id 9sf1695462gxk.16 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:48:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=c+rhktKFJUZjdUi+KJTC1E9mmMakjyW5gQJ7ZX/ptNk=; b=fyvVIPu6yN5nRCp+w1dxvqk3omeY/lqk19aXOGDapD3XkjGKp1CSrLkE0Yz0abRtMm x5ZYTj01Z0DjfwTIvL0uPZmnIcSzU5zibcHeY2pgBzOKVOLkFX2Aspd9if6b0ZYeAJLj 2YADJhyU3xUv2hmkTah42vj0zSQwvCZt83oTg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=w+1ATF0LFDdPKLzA2KIorbfZZu1jgoGx6JX1tHsLxXU/4x3kiNTZ72k+blu9Pkrgjc HPAiDFbYdC8IPSZOApcT/71MQuDpSLev/L7HKNei3sQCW03Tb063OvFaa5T75pjW/N0E 8ISVuie9InaR3FTglLDEZG9bf+2OczkFZbuZ0= Received: by 10.101.143.12 with SMTP id v12mr17111ann.79.1285336082372; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:48:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.131.11 with SMTP id i11ls878125ann.5.p; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.254.4 with SMTP id b4mr2789389ani.22.1285336081322; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.254.4 with SMTP id b4mr2789388ani.22.1285336081289; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.121]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id k15si1835043anb.8.2010.09.24.06.48.00; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.121 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.121; Received: (qmail 33118 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2010 13:47:59 -0000 Message-ID: <881052.32666.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: zhGCfgAVM1lpBantHiNsZzhbXXqmQr_z7rPlxCG8jMoWLx8 yyv4DuIc5G3YOF.MZwrDQq59bBHRjkRDHrPgpvFwtnp1piSwQBKwNe4CloJO sLzryVXYMfRtjqE_75bAYnm1_vtf6ZqxsRyMNqMVJ8ummzLhNfpbM9kL1vjO Oi98VdmLuFl2g6Nsu8ZUCZDpIy3Qp3P.aZxumBuTzHbjBdlLjjzpMzeRMzkY y2H8Z6ycRq2feU3buoQSxJj1K7.lUshod7b5WG0RzpInL5KnO0nXNm1lpoej 4OP3JbSAGMsX7YKq_lQC1Lf7FfxgnrSSRy1c4E3f6daTFbMDwTH5VJKGw63T ofzWrfEu2mpvFA26Ar9c2X7W8QmCk7A-- Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:47:59 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/497 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <38be6f52-9655-414a-adbe-8eb94559fd5f@e34g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <20100923101847.c398dcec.kfa@gmx.net> <8b9a0138-57ef-4e4c-a343-653b4f481e8d@g10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> <20100924125651.GA15012@alice.local> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:47:59 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Alice - the xorlo version To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <20100924125651.GA15012@alice.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.121 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks; now maybe I can clean out my inbox. For what it is worth (zip), the Vulgate has "Aliciam iam incipiebat plurinum tadere iuxta sororem in ripa sedere nec quinam habere quod faceret." "taedere" being very much on the "boring" side of things. ----- Original Message ---- From: Alan Post To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 7:56:51 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Alice - the xorlo version On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 08:29:39PM -0700, Lindar wrote: > I don't mean to sound rude, but we are two native English speakers > (myself and Robin), and you are not. The meaning of the phrase, in my > native understanding of English, is that she grew bored with it. I > promise that it does not mean that she grew fatigued as a direct > result of being bored. "I tire of this." means "I grow bored with > this." or "This no longer interests me." Especially in this sense > considering what kind of person Alice is. One could definitely argue > that she could have grown tired as an indirect result of being bored > (boredom leads to depression, depression leads to stress, stress leads > to physical fatigue, physical fatigue is {tatpi}), but that's not what > is being conveyed in the original English. One could also argue that > in certain instances, tiring of something could be annoyance, but this > is definitely not the case as it does not fit the situation at all. In > the sense that it's used, I believe it's a metaphorical extension, > which does not translate very well/at all into Lojban. > I'm not directing this e-mail specifically at Lindar, but replying at this point in the thread seems as good as any. I can't be the only one that saw the "Bike Shed" thread start to get attention again: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=506636+517178+/usr/local/www/db/text/1999/freebsd-hackers/19991003.freebsd-hackers Parkinson shows how you can go in to the board of directors and get approval for building a multi-million or even billion dollar atomic power plant, but if you want to build a bike shed you will be tangled up in endless discussions. Parkinson explains that this is because an atomic plant is so vast, so expensive and so complicated that people cannot grasp it, and rather than try, they fall back on the assumption that somebody else checked all the details before it got this far. Richard P. Feynmann gives a couple of interesting, and very much to the point, examples relating to Los Alamos in his books. A bike shed on the other hand. Anyone can build one of those over a weekend, and still have time to watch the game on TV. So no matter how well prepared, no matter how reasonable you are with your proposal, somebody will seize the chance to show that he is doing his job, that he is paying attention, that he is *here*. The converstation so far is exclusively about bike sheds. I'd like to propose the following instead: http://www.liveingreatness.com/the-core-protocols/perfection-game.html Jorge has just given us a performance, and by definition it is the best answer we currently have. If you can't give his performance a 10, you have to explain what it would take to make it a 10. You can't withhold a 10 on the belief that something better will happen later, and you can't withhold a 10 on the basis of not liking it. Give it a 10 or make it a 10. -Alan -- .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.