From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCbzvPkBBoEW0gvQw@googlegroups.com Fri Sep 24 11:00:18 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OzCZ7-0007YX-UQ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 11:00:18 -0700 Received: by ywp4 with SMTP id 4sf665288ywp.16 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 11:00:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=oUUTErPqlJiTnayiIYefQF3q5uID/KJh65A7x62v3CE=; b=G3gh1vPj4oI1su8hICzBniYwGb2GLW8SfU5G99h4YTnCArpSwUySeS+/khzuPXbzVP Lj56xuNskgt+e/gcSXPHJ2gG3lTQap9rluZxmIKuNApB0k2flSclFNyM0LEF8QslTm+4 CGLBf/Ic/MBNWWGoaK92h6TzASA6O0c/7USJs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=NSUeW68wxSiIOG9GKTYru8gWYZ0Bgw8vHBbLbz0CEHvh2gHERz5q55OXV/bFPfBpVf ChSuQDoF1FOw4Ikp6CBVcH9mKsvvBsPMaXZKQndC/Uj3FmDZl/FwUDG5PKCiTa3ASPJx 71g+es77XVWiuutm3WBl3M6tf0GfFtU35fm5w= Received: by 10.90.3.14 with SMTP id 14mr505079agc.47.1285351195469; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:59:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.193.98 with SMTP id dt34ls854030ibb.0.p; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.176.11 with SMTP id bc11mr636502ibb.13.1285351194842; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.176.11 with SMTP id bc11mr636501ibb.13.1285351194784; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z37si1508009ibq.0.2010.09.24.10.59.53; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.182; Received: by mail-iw0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 34so3827519iwn.27 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:59:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.170.21 with SMTP id b21mr3939882ibz.122.1285351193555; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.206.133 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:59:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <38be6f52-9655-414a-adbe-8eb94559fd5f@e34g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <20100923101847.c398dcec.kfa@gmx.net> <8b9a0138-57ef-4e4c-a343-653b4f481e8d@g10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 11:59:53 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Alice - the xorlo version From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=005045029bef4db2870491052553 --005045029bef4db2870491052553 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > Well hang on, she grew tired of sitting by her sister and doing nothing. > If one were doing something that was extremely taxing on the body, they > would very quickly become tatpi. If one were doing something very taxing= to > one's interest i.e. doing something boring, they could become tatpi > Here's my problem with likening "boredom" to {tatpi}: tatpi x1 is tired/*fatigued* by effort/situation x2 (event); x1 needs/want= s rest The fact that the word "fatigued" is included in the definition means, to me, that {tatpi} is a valid translation of "tire" as in "become sleepy or weary", but not of "tire" as in "become bored or impatient". > On Sep 24, 2010 12:20 PM, "Jonathan Jones" wrote: > > 2010/9/24 Jorge Llamb=EDas > > > >> > >> That's what we are discussing. Does the Lojban "tatpi" cover this > >> sense of the English "tired of" or not? Robin says that to him this > >> sense, let's call it "exhaust of interest", is too unrelated to the > >> "exhaust of strength" or even "exhaust of patience" senses to be > >> covered by the same word in Lojban. I say they are related enough to > >> be covered by the same word. The dispute is about how wide "tatpi" is, > >> not about what English "tired of" means. > >> > >> mu'o mi'e xorxes > >> > > > > It was my impression that Robin's argument is that {tatpi} doesn't cove= r > > "tired of", not because it is not physical, but because she's not doing > > anything. Being mentally exhausted from playing chess for 10 straight > hours > > is most certainly {tatpi}, but being bored from having nothing to do, i= n > > agreement with Robin, I do not think is. > > > > -- > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi pat= fu > do > > zo'o > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --005045029bef4db2870491052553 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gm= ail.com> wrote:

Well hang on, she grew tired of sitting by her sister and doing nothing.= =A0 If one were doing something that was extremely taxing on the body, they= would very quickly become tatpi.=A0 If one were doing something very taxin= g to one's interest i.e. doing something boring, they could become tatp= i

Here's my problem with likening "boredom&quo= t; to {tatpi}:

tatpi=A0 x1 is tired/*fatigued* by effort/situation x= 2 (event); x1 needs/wants rest

The fact that the word "fatigued" is included in the definiti= on means, to me, that {tatpi} is a valid translation of "tire" as= in "become sleepy or weary", but not of "tire" as in &= quot;become bored or impatient".
=A0
On Sep 24, 2010 12:20 PM, "J= onathan Jones" <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2010/9/24 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
>
>> <snip>
>> That's what we are discussin= g. Does the Lojban "tatpi" cover this
>> sense of the En= glish "tired of" or not? Robin says that to him this
>> = sense, let's call it "exhaust of interest", is too unrelated = to the
>> "exhaust of strength" or even "exhaust of patience&= quot; senses to be
>> covered by the same word in Lojban. I say th= ey are related enough to
>> be covered by the same word. The dispu= te is about how wide "tatpi" is,
>> not about what English "tired of" means.
>>
= >> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>>
>
> It was my im= pression that Robin's argument is that {tatpi} doesn't cover
> "tired of", not because it is not physical, but because she&= #39;s not doing
> anything. Being mentally exhausted from playing che= ss for 10 straight hours
> is most certainly {tatpi}, but being bored= from having nothing to do, in
> agreement with Robin, I do not think is.
>
> --
> = mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le = bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do
> zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
=
> --
> You received this message because = you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
> T= o post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://grou= ps.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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