From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCdk_TkBBoEZ0WhQQ@googlegroups.com Fri Sep 24 13:27:24 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OzErZ-0001yg-IP; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:27:24 -0700 Received: by yxs7 with SMTP id 7sf1783405yxs.16 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:27:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=RtftQRdJCJNYDlX9h9obZzvMtaV5vO6TjdA36orkpYE=; b=GH0TDsgVhmgTYRSIvNKmmrFPyVW9gfwoWy8oMkEKMzSbdssh79YKnnByCcbxAnyI1m NyDqUZLJDxwOOnZdJhyc/vP+ecMpfubDfiHztBbP/7IxCk8cYukpztG5nEuzbMNhutGx ljqbQ0wlkHoOrcLL5k7sf/FPjSaLvmmW1of6g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=TVU2DSjMXfWJ/catI/xxwBqVkorIQ7Ryko/Fj+dg8KBkEIWhi774i2Sn3mAtqQ70NV P7n00QBWCDDGiZ7ajyXOO8vI7I29d1F7wrcNtkblZ3xRJzoO+SvxGVmiEd9R4Wf4P1ib XHbpvTlL7ZJGVaeUhcy0RXL3rUX5hlc7qZ4AY= Received: by 10.90.3.33 with SMTP id 33mr534580agc.45.1285360029702; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:27:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.125.77 with SMTP id x13ls882837ibr.1.p; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.36.73 with SMTP id s9mr616115ibd.14.1285360029291; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.36.73 with SMTP id s9mr616114ibd.14.1285360029237; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f172.google.com (mail-iw0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id db12si1587915ibb.5.2010.09.24.13.27.08; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.172; Received: by iwn3 with SMTP id 3so1352095iwn.17 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:27:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.170.13 with SMTP id b13mr4300898ibz.62.1285360028065; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.48.79 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:27:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <38be6f52-9655-414a-adbe-8eb94559fd5f@e34g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <20100923101847.c398dcec.kfa@gmx.net> <8b9a0138-57ef-4e4c-a343-653b4f481e8d@g10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> <726959.354.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:27:07 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Alice - the xorlo version From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e68fa780e19fa0049107334a --0016e68fa780e19fa0049107334a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yeah, I seem to remember seeing in some childrens texts things like {lo gerku cu cortu .uu} to say "aww, the poor dog is in pain". On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Craig Daniel wrote: > On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:46 PM, John E Clifford > wrote: > > Well, there is no sign that Dodo is bored, etc., just that he is moving > the > > story along. And do be very careful with UI to be sure that you don't > use them > > to describe an emotion rather than express it. Alice does not express > anything > > (orally, at least) in this passage and there is o sign that the writer > > empathizes with the emotion she is described as having.. > > I regard empathetically emoting in fiction (where of course you don't > have strong feelings on people you're making up) as a reasonable way > to say something about the tone of the story as it must seem to the > people in it. That is, your empathetic emotion is as fictitious as the > events. > > That said, I do agree with you that in this particular case there's no > good case to be made for such commentary. I sorta left the text behind > in that post and meandered into the realm of "so how would we talk > about this" rather than "how should this specific text that talks > about it be translated," and failed to make the transition clear > (probably because it may not have been entirely clear in my head); I'm > not suggesting that a string of empathetic attitudinals is the correct > way to translate this text, merely that it would be a valid way to > comment on a character who seems to be growing tired of sitting there > doing nothing. > > - mi'e .kreig.daniyl. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e68fa780e19fa0049107334a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, I seem to remember seeing in some childrens texts things like {lo ger= ku cu cortu .uu} to say "aww, the poor dog is in pain".

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Craig Daniel <teucer@pobox.com&= gt; wrote:
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3= :46 PM, John E Clifford <kali9pu= tra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Well, there is no sign that Dodo is bored, etc., just that he is movin= g the
> story along. =A0And do be very careful with UI to be sure that you don= 't use them
> to describe an emotion rather than express it. =A0Alice does not expre= ss anything
> (orally, at least) in this passage and there is o sign that the writer=
> empathizes with the emotion she is described as having..

I regard empathetically emoting in fiction (where of course you don&#= 39;t
have strong feelings on people you're making up) as a reasonable way to say something about the tone of the story as it must seem to the
people in it. That is, your empathetic emotion is as fictitious as the
events.

That said, I do agree with you that in this particular case there's no<= br> good case to be made for such commentary. I sorta left the text behind
in that post and meandered into the realm of "so how would we talk
about this" rather than "how should this specific text that talks=
about it be translated," and failed to make the transition clear
(probably because it may not have been entirely clear in my head); I'm<= br> not suggesting that a string of empathetic attitudinals is the correct
way to translate this text, merely that it would be a valid way to
comment on a character who seems to be growing tired of sitting there
doing nothing.

=A0- mi'e .kreig.daniyl.

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