From lojban+bncCIXj1IxCEOG39OQEGgT5s_sC@googlegroups.com Fri Sep 24 14:45:21 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OzG4x-0006Of-Ur; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:45:21 -0700 Received: by qyk12 with SMTP id 12sf6463392qyk.16 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:45:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received :x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id:received:message-id :x-ymail-osg:received:x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0nAW8lztfAlxwMxyGfkxvGAJgfkAr3GkgAy7GUJuBqo=; b=BfVrLrLSmNTz805qeHC29lrX9oMTcDNiiW2TAAMNYQ+tBrUmXt+/5KeXmue+lBJvdg cE8drped5RByzprTDK4UAjvT4xxzk2WO/U/hbGgCWxfPYT/nedvcw0RSZGnrtsh4HLXE TPnIgUdDdNDZDYeCSnDs1pFG6++ruC2sNVqN8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=LOkfes+oaiNmk4Ez1YLUsYQf/m5UHjHz21sulHQuScm9POUF1GGYfUNWeo61QUZYel AXhLOtPt6c2mmXe92wDwEKueHY9TuMXPjLnG4lkrvMO5HzJCzqS5KZjfsIDmrR8A9p5H EyMhpcZlfaMYXsvodwyzOLgqTsXw9oOLHesnE= Received: by 10.229.43.198 with SMTP id x6mr540874qce.48.1285364705037; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:45:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.173.155 with SMTP id p27ls1273453qcz.3.p; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.192.137 with SMTP id dq9mr588842qcb.14.1285364704295; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.192.137 with SMTP id dq9mr588841qcb.14.1285364704265; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n7.bullet.re3.yahoo.com (n7.bullet.re3.yahoo.com [68.142.237.92]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id y27si1502316qce.14.2010.09.24.14.45.03; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.142.237.92 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of totus@rogers.com) client-ip=68.142.237.92; Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n7.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2010 21:45:03 -0000 Received: from [66.196.97.143] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2010 21:45:03 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp201.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2010 21:45:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 8279.62342.bm@omp201.mail.re3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 79008 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2010 21:45:02 -0000 Message-ID: <668980.78031.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Q_4M9pkVM1lIbNYW48_HFEdW3hfV80ittw7tJa6HLrS4LHx dklOyEezeW.6N1k7EqzGcz87rfkCC.F49PuYvJSgEUsKjRNmxzVhyhotQTH2 IZCK6ANb0OifSF8Uw1vsUM6rRoDXlutiG7p2wcG2QPbiZtDgbSb9LJWCia3E S0MBsDPe2.DP_E39PPNbWPszNlWjVtx1XRl_GXntUkoC5LvJ537L.r23sNSN lrmzgQRM5BHARWrH_HXDAxKsEtkSnAL3vPUJlMCX.DBQzCuu2Y9SFDIUus6k DHIg7ep4EJs9mOoH_e4EHO2oz.Q-- Received: from [99.229.170.85] by web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:45:02 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/497 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <201009241849.27524.jezuch@interia.pl> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:45:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "A. PIEKARSKI" Subject: Re: [lojban] Jbofi'e working To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <201009241849.27524.jezuch@interia.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: totus@rogers.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.142.237.92 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of totus@rogers.com) smtp.mail=totus@rogers.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@rogers.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Krzysztof, See my commenst below : >=20 > > lu ma lojbo valsi zoi py.rodak.py li'u drani >=20 > ki'anai ki'e >=20 > > .i.ua mi facki > >=20 > > Polish > > (culture) po'olska >=20 > From the very beginning I was looking for Polish stuff among lojban words= and=20 >now I'm sad to find that there's not even a gismu for it! What's more, "po= lska"=20 >is a lujvo that means "colors of Polynesia" ;) >=20 > > Polish > > (language) bangrpolska >=20 > Yeah, but Polish is an inflected language and spelling it as "bangrpolski= "=20 >(note the ending, from "j=C4=99zyk polski") was a kind of a political stat= ement=20 >zo'osai On the other hand gugdrpolska is about right in that regard, unles= s you=20 >think of "pa=C5=84stwo polskie" (and if I was really, really mean, I would= say=20 >gugdrjetcpospolita) What 'political statement' does it make? >=20 > > (Above from jbovlaste) > > Polish > > (Polish language) banpu'olu > >=20 > >=C2=A0 (I believe this one is based on the ISO code.) >=20 > Well, ISO code for Poland is pl or pol. The latter is a rafsi for polno, = as I=20 >demonstrated above... > --=20 There have been many debates over the years about cultural gismu.=C2=A0 I s= uspect=20 (but don't know) that most lojbanists consider having cutural gismu was a big mistake.=C2=A0= =20 Furthermore, the choice=20 of countries to have their own gismu defies rational explanation.=C2=A0 Tun= isia yes,=20 but India no???? Having said that, I must say that the gismu are there, fixed in concrete, s= o=20 that's that! A number of people hace tried to come up with lujvo and fu'ivla alternative= s=20 (which is not=20 the same as 'replacements').=C2=A0 The ISO approach was chosen because it i= s based on=20 a neutral (relatively) system of codes that allows one 'algorithm' to gener= ate=20 fui'vla for all=20 6,000 or so ISO-recognized languages.=C2=A0 The alternative would be to ago= nize every=20 time there=20 was a need to create a valsi for each of those languages. If you would like to know more about the process used, contact Leo Molas=20 leos.molas@gmail.com=20 who did most of the work on this.=C2=A0 Better yet, maybe somebody else rea= ding this=20 can forward the=20 relevent old emails on this list. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.