From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCvvfTkBBoE8JMAuw@googlegroups.com Fri Sep 24 14:57:18 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OzGGY-0006vS-Kw; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:57:18 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf1776098gya.16 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:57:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=amaDk/MpLQlPctzMvq3aTH7VRcRl9z0GMO5zBKBme6w=; b=l0kfQAp12z5AtXaSXX86ITit0Ie9z7C9Mgaa5d4LJP99MmechlxNWTwEvLrL1DbzL7 NC5XY5oiylcttf2wJMtFCvds9QikE+F+/KAThMPKART3PY1wWEff/q16zj9tNjMiR2hq 5jdkLleZ8acvrZG975zScwST/fHgOxarf7Exc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=skLkdECQDui7EbZC/hjWI9XNJezbTGMgtkYmVNgdnUEzwS98zDS8DdikPAqUw8OaUs E02FA7gakcMSxrFqAnuHIicFMzEiOHZuQlMDFmUEGVuyMd2x7M6bzffzNUB1d/u7YJcM 2JnnFDeq5SbEcR4NmjxEco7E6pknlnZ+YqhCw= Received: by 10.91.107.14 with SMTP id j14mr551705agm.11.1285365423943; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:57:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.125.77 with SMTP id x13ls905319ibr.1.p; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.161.82 with SMTP id q18mr655876ibx.11.1285365422646; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.161.82 with SMTP id q18mr655875ibx.11.1285365422585; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f175.google.com (mail-iw0-f175.google.com [209.85.214.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z37si1639316ibq.4.2010.09.24.14.57.01; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.175; Received: by mail-iw0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 2so2910750iwn.20 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:57:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.39.201 with SMTP id h9mr4565218ibe.27.1285365419104; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.206.133 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:56:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <668980.78031.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <201009241849.27524.jezuch@interia.pl> <668980.78031.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:56:59 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Jbofi'e working From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555cf9a365d8e0491087509 --00032555cf9a365d8e0491087509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:45 PM, A. PIEKARSKI wrote: > Krzysztof, > > See my commenst below > : > > > > > > lu ma lojbo valsi zoi py.rodak.py li'u drani > > > > ki'anai ki'e > > > > > .i.ua mi facki > > > > > > Polish > > > (culture) po'olska > > > > From the very beginning I was looking for Polish stuff among lojban wor= ds > and > >now I'm sad to find that there's not even a gismu for it! What's more, > "polska" > >is a lujvo that means "colors of Polynesia" ;) > > > > > > Polish > > > (language) bangrpolska > > > > Yeah, but Polish is an inflected language and spelling it as > "bangrpolski" > >(note the ending, from "j=C4=99zyk polski") was a kind of a political st= atement > >zo'osai On the other hand gugdrpolska is about right in that regard, > unless you > >think of "pa=C5=84stwo polskie" (and if I was really, really mean, I wou= ld say > >gugdrjetcpospolita) > > What 'political statement' does it make? > > > > > > (Above from jbovlaste) > > > Polish > > > (Polish language) banpu'olu > > > > > > (I believe this one is based on the ISO code.) > > > > Well, ISO code for Poland is pl or pol. The latter is a rafsi for polno= , > as I > >demonstrated above... > > -- > > There have been many debates over the years about cultural gismu. I > suspect > (but don't know) > that most lojbanists consider having cutural gismu was a big mistake. > Furthermore, the choice > > of countries to have their own gismu defies rational explanation. Tunisi= a > yes, > but India no???? > > Having said that, I must say that the gismu are there, fixed in concrete, > so > that's that! > > A number of people hace tried to come up with lujvo and fu'ivla > alternatives > (which is not > > the same as 'replacements'). The ISO approach was chosen because it is > based on > > a neutral (relatively) system of codes that allows one 'algorithm' to > generate > fui'vla for all > > 6,000 or so ISO-recognized languages. The alternative would be to agoniz= e > every > time there > > was a need to create a valsi for each of those languages. > > If you would like to know more about the process used, contact Leo Molas > leos.molas@gmail.com > > who did most of the work on this. Better yet, maybe somebody else readin= g > this > can forward the > > relevent old emails on this list. > I could, but I'm not going to bother unless asked, in part because I was an= d am against using ISO codes to make names for anything. --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00032555cf9a365d8e0491087509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:45 PM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
Krzysztof,

See my commenst below
:

>
> > lu ma lojbo valsi zoi py.rodak.py li'u drani
>
> ki'anai ki'e
>
> > .i.ua mi facki
> >
> > Polish
> > (culture) po'olska
>
> From the very beginning I was looking for Polish stuff among lojban wo= rds and
>now I'm sad to find that there's not even a gismu for it! What&= #39;s more, "polska"
>is a lujvo that means "colors of Polynesia" ;)

>
> > Polish
> > (language) bangrpolska
>
> Yeah, but Polish is an inflected language and spelling it as "ban= grpolski"
>(note the ending, from "j=C4=99zyk polski") was a kind of a p= olitical statement
>zo'osai On the other hand gugdrpolska is about right in that regard= , unless you
>think of "pa=C5=84stwo polskie" (and if I was really, really = mean, I would say
>gugdrjetcpospolita)

What 'political statement' does it make?

>
> > (Above from jbovlaste)
> > Polish
> > (Polish language) banpu'olu
> >
> >=C2=A0 (I believe this one is based on the ISO code.)
>
> Well, ISO code for Poland is pl or pol. The latter is a rafsi for poln= o, as I
>demonstrated above...
> --

There have been many debates over the years about cultural gismu.=C2= =A0 I suspect
(but don't know)
that most lojbanists consider having cutural gismu was a big mistake.=C2=A0=
Furthermore, the choice

of countries to have their own gismu defies rational explanation.=C2=A0 Tun= isia yes,
but India no????

Having said that, I must say that the gismu are there, fixed in concrete, s= o
that's that!

A number of people hace tried to come up with lujvo and fu'ivla alterna= tives
(which is not

the same as 'replacements').=C2=A0 The ISO approach was chosen beca= use it is based on

a neutral (relatively) system of codes that allows one 'algorithm' = to generate
fui'vla for all

6,000 or so ISO-recognized languages.=C2=A0 The alternative would be to ago= nize every
time there

was a need to create a valsi for each of those languages.

If you would like to know more about the process used, contact Leo Molas leos.molas@gmail.com

who did most of the work on this.=C2=A0 Better yet, maybe somebody else rea= ding this
can forward the

relevent old emails on this list.

I = could, but I'm not going to bother unless asked, in part because I was = and am against using ISO codes to make names for anything.=C2=A0
=

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le= bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to= the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--00032555cf9a365d8e0491087509--