From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhD11PXkBBoENZNzqg@googlegroups.com Fri Sep 24 20:20:38 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OzLJR-00072c-Qy; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:20:38 -0700 Received: by gwb11 with SMTP id 11sf1891942gwb.16 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:20:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=lL6q8DrHFbeNnM+jzynWjH7iVCts2gacq/eXzJBACZw=; b=j1XggoW46kSkJ3SE75JjERiCvFtBAkfM8pPZcmCVpKip+jBW/djubsFmZRkWefelmS 9E12EQRklWkSgxlvXvVdgeSEg1j+IlUZFFRzVpFhDwhfjg/3VLdq3ZxETL5QEh76iVJr y9Zf7RuuicmeJZhgMfJYfQ6FdMRYmLe1qalPs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=ke0qUeSLNStm15p8cZspcO82+/nlbp37Qxvsk8NkbE15bnAzPYBaB7RNyKwJ9KpxAA iZKmnoBn4RXvy6IxUN4W3yRE4ZtdpgShqMNFtdwAkdPcQrI+y0Ql4PakLzmbQFggE597 W4hHTmu1WbzezXK0qqb5ly0fLKS3l+y/2gEiA= Received: by 10.90.217.17 with SMTP id p17mr587078agg.2.1285384821871; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:20:21 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.125.77 with SMTP id x13ls986626ibr.1.p; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.35.77 with SMTP id o13mr639257ibd.3.1285384821350; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.35.77 with SMTP id o13mr639256ibd.3.1285384821300; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f169.google.com (mail-iw0-f169.google.com [209.85.214.169]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id db12si1816378ibb.1.2010.09.24.20.20.20; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.169; Received: by iwn33 with SMTP id 33so3045344iwn.28 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:20:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.161.68 with SMTP id q4mr4903217ibx.79.1285384820188; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.206.133 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:20:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100925031418.GE18705@alice.local> References: <20100925023935.GA18705@alice.local> <20100925024322.GB18705@alice.local> <20100925031418.GE18705@alice.local> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 21:20:20 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: nu pa moi se nunkei la'e lu lo do ckiku ma zvati li'u lu'u From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.169 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0050450140b59b66b504910cf90b --0050450140b59b66b504910cf90b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Alan Post wrote: > On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 09:10:19PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > Where I'm quoted as saying { .i.ienai mi skami nu surla .i ri gunka}, > I > > meant to say {na surla}. > > > > Again, me. At { .i.uacai.ui .i ko'a rokci .i ko'e grana} the {.i} in > {.i > > ko'a} shouldn't be there. > > > > This one isn't really a grammar issue: At { .i.iecu'i naja'a go'i .i > xu do > > djica}, the {naja'a} was me trying to say, basically, "I'm cool either > > way". I couldn't find a midpoint cmavo between {na} and {ja'a}. > > > > {.i ca ko'a goi lo rokci pe mi .ije ko'e goi lo grana pe do} is a few > > lines early. I said it after you said {.i mi dunda ko'a do .ije do > dunda > > ko'e mi} but before you said {.i mi lebna lo rokci pe mi do}, because > > after the transfer of possession the {pe} was reversed. (Which also > means > > that {lo rokci pe mi} should've been {pe do}. :) ) > > > > Oh right, I meant to ask you about that, because I saw you modeling > that in the game. > > I originally used "pe do" and "pe mi" because I wanted to translate > the sentence: "I have your stick" > > I need some way to say "I posses this stick which you own." (or the > inverse, "I own the stick which you posses.") > > I thought that "pe" could be used in this way, so I could say: {.i > mi ponse lo grana pe do} and mean "I have your stick." > > Is there a better way to express this? It has certainly be the most > difficult issue I've had translating material. > > -Alan > -- > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi > Well, technically, when the items were transferred, both {pe do} and {pe mi} are valid. You originally had the rock, so the rock was associated with you, {pe do}, when you gave it to me, it became associated with me, in the sense that I was holding it, but it was still associated with you as well, in the sense that you were it's former bearer. I can't remember off the top of my head, so I need to look this up before I go any further.... -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0050450140b59b66b504910cf90b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Alan Post <alanpost@su= nflowerriver.org> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 09:10:19PM -0600, Jonathan Jones = wrote:
> =A0 =A0Where I'm quoted as saying { .i.ienai mi skami nu surla .i = ri gunka}, I
> =A0 =A0meant to say {na surla}.
>
> =A0 =A0Again, me. At { .i.uacai.ui .i ko'a rokci .i ko'e grana= } the {.i} in {.i
> =A0 =A0ko'a} shouldn't be there.
>
> =A0 =A0This one isn't really a grammar issue: At { .i.iecu'i n= aja'a go'i .i xu do
> =A0 =A0djica}, the {naja'a} was me trying to say, basically, "= ;I'm cool either
> =A0 =A0way". I couldn't find a midpoint cmavo between {na} an= d {ja'a}.
>
> =A0 =A0{.i ca ko'a goi lo rokci pe mi .ije ko'e goi lo grana p= e do} is a few
> =A0 =A0lines early. I said it after you said {.i mi dunda ko'a do = .ije do dunda
> =A0 =A0ko'e mi} but before you said {.i mi lebna lo rokci pe mi do= }, because
> =A0 =A0after the transfer of possession the {pe} was reversed. (Which = also means
> =A0 =A0that {lo rokci pe mi} should've been {pe do}. :) )
>

Oh right, I meant to ask you about that, because I saw you modeling that in the game.

I originally used "pe do" and "pe mi" because I wanted = to translate
the sentence: "I have your stick"

I need some way to say "I posses this stick which you own." (or t= he
inverse, "I own the stick which you posses.")

I thought that "pe" could be used in this way, so I could say: {.= i
mi ponse lo grana pe do} and mean "I have your stick."

Is there a better way to express this? =A0It has certainly be the most
difficult issue I've had translating material.

-Alan
--
.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi

Well, technically, when the items were t= ransferred, both {pe do} and {pe mi} are valid. You originally had the rock= , so the rock was associated with you, {pe do}, when you gave it to me, it = became associated with me, in the sense that I was holding it, but it was s= till associated with you as well, in the sense that you were it's forme= r bearer. I can't remember off the top of my head, so I need to look th= is up before I go any further....



--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'= ;o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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