From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCO1vXkBBoEUIHxWw@googlegroups.com Fri Sep 24 20:23:09 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OzLLu-00077J-6x; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:23:09 -0700 Received: by gxk9 with SMTP id 9sf1896624gxk.16 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:23:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=OygzHe4x4n9PKWbzme3bnqW4YWCC3oXOnZHw912ryHY=; b=ZRQ6wwV96VAWg5cDdiC/v3EjOxOim1Fuhup9Bgsz3OXbAazkd5rpZXMFxcBahqjQUx 1MB+h3T/tkBRcKLu0YdikN3qmKbXwXvcCvwneaNwblQ1Njm0yO8Nfq+zpw4OE03U7bXS uOAkaRo23X00/248KI9ZnVI+v7iMwnTkGk7yc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=JlY4/rjCVUOTbhk3pwoBTlZxJrPR/WDZ6s3kiEdDSaIuvCkHXLTblZuBaJflU01LiW 0ecCTXjyt5cUV5T6y+wXJHLwzmK2tEl5UjAPYIzYg2wmf+TygOYHerQ4/CLzbsoldhk9 AglNzY9/7VqvrjdnoXd2Y/LpyScvKjOeGUxso= Received: by 10.90.3.14 with SMTP id 14mr567691agc.47.1285384974479; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:22:54 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.123.203 with SMTP id q11ls985948ibr.2.p; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.191.68 with SMTP id dl4mr657898ibb.18.1285384973899; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.191.68 with SMTP id dl4mr657897ibb.18.1285384973865; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f178.google.com (mail-iw0-f178.google.com [209.85.214.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id cn5si1816934ibb.2.2010.09.24.20.22.52; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.178; Received: by iwn35 with SMTP id 35so2517005iwn.9 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:22:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.59.83 with SMTP id k19mr4722497ibh.178.1285384972778; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.206.133 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2010 20:22:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20100925023935.GA18705@alice.local> <20100925024322.GB18705@alice.local> <20100925031418.GE18705@alice.local> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 21:22:52 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: nu pa moi se nunkei la'e lu lo do ckiku ma zvati li'u lu'u From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0014853d0106b3bd4104910d027e --0014853d0106b3bd4104910d027e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Alan Post wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 09:10:19PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> > Where I'm quoted as saying { .i.ienai mi skami nu surla .i ri gunka}, >> I >> > meant to say {na surla}. >> > >> > Again, me. At { .i.uacai.ui .i ko'a rokci .i ko'e grana} the {.i} in >> {.i >> > ko'a} shouldn't be there. >> > >> > This one isn't really a grammar issue: At { .i.iecu'i naja'a go'i .i >> xu do >> > djica}, the {naja'a} was me trying to say, basically, "I'm cool >> either >> > way". I couldn't find a midpoint cmavo between {na} and {ja'a}. >> > >> > {.i ca ko'a goi lo rokci pe mi .ije ko'e goi lo grana pe do} is a few >> > lines early. I said it after you said {.i mi dunda ko'a do .ije do >> dunda >> > ko'e mi} but before you said {.i mi lebna lo rokci pe mi do}, because >> > after the transfer of possession the {pe} was reversed. (Which also >> means >> > that {lo rokci pe mi} should've been {pe do}. :) ) >> > >> >> Oh right, I meant to ask you about that, because I saw you modeling >> that in the game. >> >> I originally used "pe do" and "pe mi" because I wanted to translate >> the sentence: "I have your stick" >> >> I need some way to say "I posses this stick which you own." (or the >> inverse, "I own the stick which you posses.") >> >> I thought that "pe" could be used in this way, so I could say: {.i >> mi ponse lo grana pe do} and mean "I have your stick." >> >> Is there a better way to express this? It has certainly be the most >> difficult issue I've had translating material. >> >> -Alan >> -- >> .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi >> > > Well, technically, when the items were transferred, both {pe do} and {pe > mi} are valid. You originally had the rock, so the rock was associated with > you, {pe do}, when you gave it to me, it became associated with me, in the > sense that I was holding it, but it was still associated with you as well, > in the sense that you were it's former bearer. I can't remember off the top > of my head, so I need to look this up before I go any further.... Okay, so the three (I knew that part) tiers are pe, po, po'e, which are associated, specific to, and inalienable to, in order. So, if the rock is your rock and you are holding it, it is {lo rokci pe do po do}, whereas if I am holding it, it is {lo rokci pe mi po do}. -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0014853d0106b3bd4104910d027e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Jonathan Jones = <eyeonus@gmail.co= m> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 24= , 2010 at 9:14 PM, Alan Post <alanpost@sunflowerriver.org>= ; wrote:
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 09:10:19PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> =A0 =A0Where I'm quoted as saying { .i.ienai mi skami nu surla .i = ri gunka}, I
> =A0 =A0meant to say {na surla}.
>
> =A0 =A0Again, me. At { .i.uacai.ui .i ko'a rokci .i ko'e grana= } the {.i} in {.i
> =A0 =A0ko'a} shouldn't be there.
>
> =A0 =A0This one isn't really a grammar issue: At { .i.iecu'i n= aja'a go'i .i xu do
> =A0 =A0djica}, the {naja'a} was me trying to say, basically, "= ;I'm cool either
> =A0 =A0way". I couldn't find a midpoint cmavo between {na} an= d {ja'a}.
>
> =A0 =A0{.i ca ko'a goi lo rokci pe mi .ije ko'e goi lo grana p= e do} is a few
> =A0 =A0lines early. I said it after you said {.i mi dunda ko'a do = .ije do dunda
> =A0 =A0ko'e mi} but before you said {.i mi lebna lo rokci pe mi do= }, because
> =A0 =A0after the transfer of possession the {pe} was reversed. (Which = also means
> =A0 =A0that {lo rokci pe mi} should've been {pe do}. :) )
>

Oh right, I meant to ask you about that, because I saw you modeling that in the game.

I originally used "pe do" and "pe mi" because I wanted = to translate
the sentence: "I have your stick"

I need some way to say "I posses this stick which you own." (or t= he
inverse, "I own the stick which you posses.")

I thought that "pe" could be used in this way, so I could say: {.= i
mi ponse lo grana pe do} and mean "I have your stick."

Is there a better way to express this? =A0It has certainly be the most
difficult issue I've had translating material.

-Alan
--
.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi

Well, technically, when the = items were transferred, both {pe do} and {pe mi} are valid. You originally = had the rock, so the rock was associated with you, {pe do}, when you gave i= t to me, it became associated with me, in the sense that I was holding it, = but it was still associated with you as well, in the sense that you were it= 's former bearer. I can't remember off the top of my head, so I nee= d to look this up before I go any further....

Okay, so the three (I knew that part) tiers are pe, po, po'e, = which are associated, specific to, and inalienable to, in order. So, if the= rock is your rock and you are holding it, it is {lo rokci pe do po do}, wh= ereas if I am holding it, it is {lo rokci pe mi po do}.
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko = cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
= (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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