From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhCo5oDlBBoEdNlnIQ@googlegroups.com Sun Sep 26 23:01:26 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P06mB-0005mw-FQ; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:01:26 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf1138561wwe.16 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:01:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=loma3LaDLGV38RnwuXDb1jAjCqVKKZG/pHswkUwOzZI=; b=IOB3k+MSFhaaytEaaHPRR5CdUWVTMj5Lh/942C3t4B60wbUcyqh2jF9N7TAVpo9AQG wlV3C1yKqoT47RtpkR7/v+raK+C+ZjErJ6RJMEd1Es+ULYy31ppOcU4YzO4A+TRIaa9u EbDyUjZ++cf2X38ieV3N1Yeg2ETkzOljv4szk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XCPh6gzg4wKW9XozNnHR5T0e9F7Xl4mj0KCeEbkLytlLe7KFpPE2259Kb8o7H6qLW5 M67txU91nxVZJZ614j0tocAGgoIyRA3MuOpLKxhRdhqEwO38B5j9BHnM/Kec3rLtpzUG xs64C5QLuwjRSxG79DNZ/zneJ9DQtkt2ceLiA= Received: by 10.216.145.165 with SMTP id p37mr1046436wej.28.1285567272057; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:01:12 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.237.134 with SMTP id y6ls717922weq.2.p; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.36.137 with SMTP id w9mr690537wea.0.1285567270921; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.36.137 with SMTP id w9mr690535wea.0.1285567270851; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f175.google.com (mail-wy0-f175.google.com [74.125.82.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m11si1794741wej.7.2010.09.26.23.01.09; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.175; Received: by mail-wy0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 35so2123298wyb.34 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.151.195 with SMTP id d3mr5776081wbw.170.1285567269678; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:01:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.139.198 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:00:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Stela Selckiku Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 02:00:39 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] la za'e filjvocedra (The Age of Easy Lujvo) To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > It's an exellent point.=A0 I only start thinking about lujvo creaton > when I'm trying to think of how to translate an english word. > But that seems like such a waste.=A0 If that's the only reason that > we use for making lujvo then we're going to just fill the ze'a > jvoca'u with glico translations. .ie tcetce malglico .i .i'e do jvofi'i zo jvoca'u noi mlejvo The thing is that it's much harder to make a word for something completely new. You have to explain to people what the concept is, instead of just pointing them at which existing concept to connect the word to. For instance I made up a lujvo the other day za'e "la'ucni" (lalxu+cinmo, lake+emote), by which I mean experiencing the feeling of encountering a new space that's very broad and deep, a large range of possibilities that you can dive into and explore. But more concrete I guess than za'e "xasycni" (xamsi+cinmo, ocean+emote) which would be completely overwhelming, would be something there's no way you could ever explore it to its ends and depth. With "la'ucni" it's a feeling of something that's vast but also comprehensible, something you can see the ends of even if it would take a long time to explore them. So you can see how it's hard to be sure even with all those words of explanation that you're thinking of the same thing I am, since I'm not just hooking it onto a concept we already share. I think that filjvo can help us to more easily explore new parts of the jvoca'u, because then even if there isn't a natlang word that the filjvo resembles you can expect its meaning because of the pattern of similar words. For instance many of the -gau lujvo were obviously made as translations of English words, like badgau =3D defend and dadgau =3D to hang/suspend, but you can make a new one like, oh I dunno, za'e "blagau" (blanu+gasnu, blue+do) and even though there isn't a specific English word for making something blue, the meaning of the filjvo is easy to follow because it's in the same pattern as the rest of the -gau words, so you know what I'm talking about if I say "mi blagau le zdani" (I made the house blue). mi'e la stela selckiku --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.