From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDkyILlBBoEMMXYsg@googlegroups.com Mon Sep 27 07:04:35 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P0EJj-0005Q5-Sv; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:04:35 -0700 Received: by wyb40 with SMTP id 40sf1252084wyb.16 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:04:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XRwx9HTR37/DgrpaJJdz7R3rC0hYMO6zOp8KHf9xt9k=; b=lXvnxhv1NBR9XGaSCtUFJtABxpsz+8uhZoiq/FTPPmihojZSHfJpoCOdz+DNNQMDRO cnJxaHCePywFkcofApDhq2sYmS5PVjWQPwhl9bqHtyCkOvBCOoxBB8/KcscRdMBSNX0X 2t9tFENmGo/RSJ/jr9IiZ8CToPlCWij2ztMl8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=LWN7hFwXofX9flDJ4f3VnLwNW0HmOSe+mtZdejVtoQ8mKMbSbtXbpfNo8Td8N9QYcP hmCaBAPm6HPwcn4Vngtu7yufXrDQErFp77dXXftC3/wQke0r0R1+3JuCEW21I7rqCwvd pF2SiB5K3krVydvZGnIXRpPi++Cvaljw2XEqk= Received: by 10.216.145.167 with SMTP id p39mr1128604wej.10.1285596260712; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:04:20 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.101.19 with SMTP id a19ls1249774wbo.3.p; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.136.195 with SMTP id s3mr360655wbt.25.1285596259405; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.136.195 with SMTP id s3mr360654wbt.25.1285596259316; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f54.google.com (mail-ww0-f54.google.com [74.125.82.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a37si2241428wba.7.2010.09.27.07.04.18; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.54; Received: by mail-ww0-f54.google.com with SMTP id 22so6846743wwb.35 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:04:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.146.193 with SMTP id i1mr4124216wbv.143.1285596258066; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.130 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:04:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100927134719.GC24270@alice.local> References: <20100925023935.GA18705@alice.local> <20100927134719.GC24270@alice.local> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:04:17 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] nu pa moi se nunkei la'e lu lo do ckiku ma zvati li'u lu'u From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Alan Post w= rote: > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 12:20:26AM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: >> > =A0 =A0.i ko'a pe mi .i lo rokci pe mi .i ko'e pe do .i lo grana pe do >> >> Grammatical, but no predicates here. I assume you want: >> >> .i ko'a me mi moi .i lo rokci cu me mi moi .i ko'e me do moi .i lo >> rokci cu me do moi > > I am trying to learn how {mi moi} relates to {pe mi} and {po mi}. "mi moi" by itself is not grammatical. The construct is "ME sumti MOI [MEhU]", which converts the sumti into a selbri. > I understand that pe/po are relative phrases, and I'm not sitting in > front of the reference grammar so I don't know why {pa moi broda} is > gramatical whereas {mi moi broda} is not. Because "pa" and "mi" are in different selma'o. > If I say {.i lo broda ku me mi moi}, I understand that to mean > "broda is in set of my things (and events, states, &c?), but where does > this fall with regards to pe/po? It's a general relationship, like "pe". The place structure of "ME sumti MOI" is "x1 is sumti's by relationship x2", so you can always make it more specific by adding a specific x2. >=A0Can you possess something in my set, > as in the (non-grammatical) ".i do ponse lo mi moi rokci"? The grammatical form would be "do ponse lo me mi moi rokci". > To make this > grammatical do I say ".i do ponse lo mi rokci"? =A0Or am I saying "you > posses the me type-of rock? That's also correct, and equivalent to "do ponse lo rokci pe mi". "pe mi" attaches to the sumti "lo rokci", "me mi moi" is a tanru unit that forms a tanru with "rokci". mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.