From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCWgoPlBBoElKJGvQ@googlegroups.com Mon Sep 27 09:07:02 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P0GED-0004Hj-1q; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:07:01 -0700 Received: by pzk7 with SMTP id 7sf2404956pzk.16 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:06:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=+XreXw+mLEs3TqI4s4jEg4ywv69qvGu6BjLnnU2rB7o=; b=I2H2EtDB3kc5P+O6xE9HrmdKYIUjNWscDk66n/ueBNQJckj3IC+2BR/R12ISDwJ5WE nesvet7aKWv3zoEYXTpzqE1yx9qbvz/i/5hY12vxc7BdILQPnrODqAnRl6oK0qt7n0Vu rGqsmIA6bJAMS44b4fxHE5RnIfoCrI+HlU/D0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=bEgaeAK2fYvHlPgjGfnJO5Lp/8sbY537PrjjbDfEEXtSecXCRuTOJQlLLW1PYp5X6K tcYJxpC1Za+wVhWON5lch2Pr+ikhvUl1ypTyO5G+ejZyxU4xpRqNMWFhF9T7o1YZ8FQf 8eEOo2FS0AWGi27wCtn9No7eiSh1ZEr8IlpiA= Received: by 10.115.67.11 with SMTP id u11mr579192wak.23.1285603606594; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:06:46 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.115.98.19 with SMTP id a19ls4475035wam.1.p; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.102.20 with SMTP id z20mr3200332wab.5.1285603605979; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.102.20 with SMTP id z20mr3200330wab.5.1285603605917; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id d25si7388996wam.4.2010.09.27.09.06.44; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.54; Received: by pzk7 with SMTP id 7so2433690pzk.41 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:06:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.121.41 with SMTP id t41mr6627852wfc.259.1285603604729; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.48.79 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:06:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201009271124.26547.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201009271124.26547.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 12:06:44 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] syntactically correct but grammatically wrong From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636e0a4e92e909404913fea24 --001636e0a4e92e909404913fea24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't know about the first one, but with the alice one I thought it was acceptable to continue using places even after the definition stops? I understand {la .alis sipa ko'a} = {la .alis sipna do'e ko'a} On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > The Lojban formal grammar covers syntax, but not semantics or pragmatics. > There are sentences that are valid according to the grammar, but would not > be > valid to a native speaker. For instance: > > mi te .u do du ra'o ko'a (converting a conjunction with "te" is > meaningless; "du", unlike "go'i", has no antecedent, so "du ra'o" doesn't > make sense) > > ze'e le jeftu be li ci mi sipna noda ("sipna" is intransitive; this is in > Alice) > > le brife cu jungau le dargu le tsani (wind is not an agent, roads don't > know, > sky isn't a knowable fact) > > Can you think of others? > -- > lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001636e0a4e92e909404913fea24 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know about the first one, but with the alice one I thought it w= as acceptable to continue using places even after the definition stops?
I understand {la .alis sipa ko'a} =3D {la .alis sipna d= o'e ko'a}

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Pierre Abb= at <phma@phma.op= tus.nu> wrote:
The Lojban formal grammar covers syntax, but not semantics or pragmatics. There are sentences that are valid according to the grammar, but would not = be
valid to a native speaker. For instance:

mi te .u do du ra'o ko'a (converting a conjunction with "te&qu= ot; is
meaningless; "du", unlike "go'i", has no antecedent= , so "du ra'o" doesn't
make sense)

ze'e le jeftu be li ci mi sipna noda ("sipna" is intransitive= ; this is in
Alice)

le brife cu jungau le dargu le tsani (wind is not an agent, roads don't= know,
sky isn't a knowable fact)

Can you think of others?
--
lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--001636e0a4e92e909404913fea24--