From lojban+bncCIGHwM2rDhDlvYPlBBoEcye0HQ@googlegroups.com Mon Sep 27 11:14:14 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P0IDI-0005Ux-P5; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:14:14 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf4398298gya.16 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:14:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pwV6VaUWuYQHdSHv8TroMStsxpxftbwyYU/8ZKXswsc=; b=o6Ylb3Z/LIWIyYGhTp0yLTsgS753Iiz/LrjsPFeANwDhiDAWcQx8nD8AqMsQBD2qKw DnOIO5O5MZS/4xics2iFcueGXj7GA/uE4csKCwxQVhj0gHpROQ3J22oTl9VfcmwnkwDk AxIGHceJ8vl8LJhhkkMT+HZaC1dWKOgBgT+1Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; b=FVEJPATvnpvunmQlgaOmUVzF9TdbG1XznmJkcgzij7qppeyf/cbfSUlH/rHwJ3Ijnu LRXDGM99fFyrMgPPWYcnkctlTTVM1vlW9c5zhhBx2Q+POJxjSrrGQ+gmhWE2sb5Pxrw3 g73qlpg7cPtI9jlD87reS5W+rfQTAfCrxyJbk= Received: by 10.90.217.17 with SMTP id p17mr1277447agg.32.1285611237213; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:13:57 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.83.8 with SMTP id k8ls2502661agl.0.p; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.51.21 with SMTP id y21mr2516353yby.58.1285611236054; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.51.21 with SMTP id y21mr2516352yby.58.1285611236007; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f171.google.com (mail-yx0-f171.google.com [209.85.213.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id d3si5766540ybi.13.2010.09.27.11.13.55; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.213.171 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.213.171; Received: by yxk30 with SMTP id 30so1259812yxk.16 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.129.13 with SMTP id m13mr2327896vcs.272.1285611235508; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.10.243.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e31sm3925800vbe.19.2010.09.27.11.13.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 12:13:51 -0600 From: Alan Post To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] nu pa moi se nunkei la'e lu lo do ckiku ma zvati li'u lu'u Message-ID: <20100927181351.GF25976@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20100925023935.GA18705@alice.local> <201009271901.55338.jezuch@interia.pl> <20100927171800.GB25976@alice.local> <201009271938.58364.jezuch@interia.pl> <20100927175015.GD25976@alice.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20100927175015.GD25976@alice.local> X-Original-Sender: alanpost@sunflowerriver.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.213.171 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:50:15AM -0600, Alan Post wrote: > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 07:38:57PM +0200, Krzysztof Sobolewski wrote: > > Dnia poniedzia=B3ek, 27 wrze=B6nia 2010 o 19:18:18 Alan Post napisa=B3(= a): > > > The one of these you are interested in is here: > > >=20 > > > http://dag.github.com/cll/18/11/ > >=20 > > Ah indeed, ki'e. > >=20 > > > I personally think it could use a bit of fleshing out, it glosses > > > over a lot very fast. > >=20 > > Yeah, no wonder I didn't remember it... > >=20 > > "It is perfectly possible to use non-numerical sumti after "me" and bef= ore a member of MOI, producing strange results indeed:" > >=20 > > Is it "perfectly possible" because there's no way to prevent it with gr= ammar itself, i.e. it's a bug that became a feature? ;) Because I still don= 't have an idea what {me mi moi} would mean (me-th?). >=20 > You can compose the meaning by looking at the definition of me and > moi: >=20 > me: >=20 > x1 is a mass formed from the set x2 of n members, > one or more of which is/are x3 >=20 > moi: >=20 > x1 is the (n)th member of set x2 when ordered by rule x3 [by standard x= 4] >=20 > So one could take {me mi moi} to be: >=20 > x1 is a member of the mass of those things that are mine. > =20 > I've been thinking about it like giving a name/description to a set, > rather than counting the element of a set number-wise. >=20 > Other intrepretation is most certainly welcome! It doesn't seem accident= al, > as a special rule was made for it. >=20 let me try this again: me mi moi =3D> me_x1 me (me_x2=3D (moi_x1=3Dmi) moi) so the x2 of me is {mi moi} and the x1 of moi is {mi} x1 is a mass formed from the set of x2=3D{mi moi} of n members x1=3D{me} is the (n)th member of set x2 when ordered by rule x3 [by stand= ard x4] -Alan --=20 .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.