From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDKvITlBBoEuuBCYw@googlegroups.com Mon Sep 27 15:44:42 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P0MR4-0006u5-7X; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:44:42 -0700 Received: by gxk9 with SMTP id 9sf4734462gxk.16 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:44:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Qjt32cj46tMeQ4lva4rOKCh9bAtpBdMDPikdxpITJ78=; b=3HdyYnQ2aJnwJ0F2nbq7K+n0ZNpsy7/7Pjt/zbbYMe1dcojeDabEBsM9DAP1GbiwJu pQ2S612DmM//bHMChtCo+/VAvdaLW+nlM2n4ELwHlboGT54EcMz0ruoR4oyS4NkHgk8H tBdrm9MJZzNW8iDrjvVcFTFGJ/Ja8ltDU2z6k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=iSnHUYPcjvMNohyaTkGBM6n6i319BZxZxhxy6LCpDKyuIlCXIJWOzw6gwU0J4s1WxA 3F4XU7MvmPUFi0wktCYWFIyvcnEn5vnsM9wioT9cBkQrijtgWaxUdOThjuxqIwkApmvy AfK0vuBCXJZ0+X/wEgEOxI9pmM2P2HqLTz4x0= Received: by 10.90.96.3 with SMTP id t3mr1352052agb.26.1285627467004; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:44:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.193.98 with SMTP id dt34ls1993473ibb.0.p; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.192.73 with SMTP id dp9mr1245420ibb.16.1285627466403; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.192.73 with SMTP id dp9mr1245419ibb.16.1285627466361; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f175.google.com (mail-iw0-f175.google.com [209.85.214.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id cn5si4037108ibb.2.2010.09.27.15.44.25; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.175; Received: by iwn2 with SMTP id 2so3348807iwn.6 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:44:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.32.73 with SMTP id b9mr9643079ibd.133.1285627463290; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.48.79 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:44:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20100925023935.GA18705@alice.local> <201009271901.55338.jezuch@interia.pl> <20100927171800.GB25976@alice.local> <201009271938.58364.jezuch@interia.pl> <20100927175015.GD25976@alice.local> <20100927181351.GF25976@alice.local> <20100927181641.GG25976@alice.local> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:44:23 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] nu pa moi se nunkei la'e lu lo do ckiku ma zvati li'u lu'u From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d6c914350730491457832 --0022152d6c914350730491457832 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I dunno what I would need it for, it just bothers me that it breaks the symmetry. hmmm, I imagine some religious texts might find a use for {lo pruxi po'e mi}? 2010/9/27 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > > > > poi - noi > > pe - ne > > po'u - no'u > > and po and po'e are like their own little beasts. Which brings up > another > > question. Why no incidental versions of {po} and {po'e}? All the othe= r > > restrictive markers have incidental counterparts. > > The question I would ask instead is why bother with "po" and "po'e" at al= l? > > "po" can only be useful to someone really obsessed with property, > otherwise "pe" works just fine, and in the cases when it's really > important to emphasize a property relationship, then you can always > say "poi se ponse". What's so special about the "ponse" relationship > that it needs a special shortcut word? > > So you don't really need an incidental version of "po", you can just > use "noi se ponse" if the need ever arises. > > As for "po'e", it is really hard to come up with an example where you > would use "po'e" instead of "be". "po'e" doesn't really make much > sense for a language like Lojban where all the words are intrinsically > relationships. And I don't even know what you would do with an > incidental version of "po'e", since even the restrictive version is so > useless. What did you need it for? > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0022152d6c914350730491457832 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I dunno what I would need it for, it just bothers me that it breaks the sym= metry.

hmmm, I imagine some religious texts might find a= use for {lo pruxi po'e mi}?

2010/9/2= 7 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 4= :27 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeaberge= n@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> poi - noi
> pe - ne
> po'u - no'u
> and po and po'e are like their own little beasts. =A0Which brings = up another
> question. =A0Why no incidental versions of {po} and {po'e}? =A0All= the other
> restrictive markers have incidental counterparts.

The question I would ask instead is why bother with "po" an= d "po'e" at all?

"po" can only be useful to someone really obsessed with property,=
otherwise "pe" works just fine, and in the cases when it's re= ally
important to emphasize a property relationship, then you can always
say "poi se ponse". =A0What's so special about the "pons= e" relationship
that it needs a special shortcut word?

So you don't really need an incidental version of "po", you c= an just
use "noi se ponse" if the need ever arises.

As for "po'e", it is really hard to come up with an example w= here you
would use "po'e" instead of "be". "po'e&qu= ot; doesn't really make much
sense for a language like Lojban where all the words are intrinsically
relationships. And I don't even know what you would do with an
incidental version of "po'e", since even the restrictive vers= ion is so
useless. What did you need it for?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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