From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhCvwYjlBBoE5m7Qtw@googlegroups.com Tue Sep 28 10:07:13 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P0de0-00080h-94; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:07:12 -0700 Received: by qwb8 with SMTP id 8sf3866614qwb.16 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:07:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=35hnTH9VpPfO7xE7mpxd04b6KIpUHq49wKA/UsSTeS0=; b=OvZJJNdbGEOUhyFm2k/s6yanU67B/ms4ldtE8iMElcbztw7xK8qnKwRet7qSXPxd/5 WYel0sdznejMZEBM//afuEcspIe1IOOJgnwXKU8LxbetnBIZyTjRJYfSsKIkn4IKbc4D rfzG6nrNuYKvhWUwnqxwnnTOyXavjWl8UGfhU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=wevomBckN8/2dmeK0VPFGl8c0cqeRTUkCjBvK+waDsrEiqhm3IHMWKH+NY5GmovVY6 gGEkMbRNcWMmrXvaZPOFS6jjaSNInNm94daf+UJuL+NUPVnxjaEKVe5+TbhhhN8j009h Rp4O0L4gB68+tnL820Y3AK3bxy7VjAUEyav0Y= Received: by 10.229.2.154 with SMTP id 26mr32873qcj.15.1285693615073; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:06:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.219.212 with SMTP id hv20ls2949505qcb.1.p; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.89.82 with SMTP id d18mr38496qcm.18.1285693613872; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.89.82 with SMTP id d18mr38495qcm.18.1285693613795; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f170.google.com (mail-qy0-f170.google.com [209.85.216.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id c20si4312592qcs.15.2010.09.28.10.06.52; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.170; Received: by mail-qy0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 35so10392509qyk.1 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:06:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.227.81 with SMTP id iz17mr209168qcb.2.1285693612530; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.85.3 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:06:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201009281026.46396.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201009281026.46396.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:06:52 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] [update] le virnu smani blozeile'a From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163630f28d109d7c049154df7f --00163630f28d109d7c049154df7f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Tuesday 28 September 2010 09:08:57 Michael Turniansky wrote: > > I respectfully disagree with pir about "jinku", though. I think the > > gismu is broad enough to include supplements, as well. > > Do you think "tatygre jinku" is proper usage? A baby encounters a pathogen > and > passes it to the mother, who makes antibodies and passes them back to the > baby. It's called "diathelic immunity" in English. > > If "jinku" includes supplements, how would you specify vaccines? > > Pierre > -- My main point was that jinku is defined as " x1 is a vaccine/immune-system stimulant protecting x2 against disease x3 introduced by method x4," while "[v]itamin C increases the proliferative responses of T lymphocytes and the production of interferon, and prevents defects in neutrophils ( http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v60/n1/full/1602261a.html#bib12 )" I think that effect qualifies as an immune-system stimulant, and we certainly know that it protects against scurvy. (And if we open the door to Vitamin C, it probably should also apply to anything else whose lack would cause a "disease" whether or not they specifically stimulate the immune system and/or is a vaccine). And yeah, tatygre jinku sounds fine to me for diathelic immunity. Perhaps an antibody can even be called a sevzi se jinku. If I wanted to distinguish between a disease-warding supplement and vaccine? That's an interesting question because vaccines can portect against bacterial diseases, viral diseases, and even non-microorganism toxins. And what of the elusive cancer vaccine(s) still being sought? So, like many interlingual things, the dividing lines between English and lojban aren't the same, so it would be hard (and, I submit, undesirable) to define a single term that encompasses all that the English word encompasses, while at the same time excluding all that the English term excludes. But I would certainly say that terms like virjinku, jumjinku, and vidjinku would exclude supplements while specifying the agents. And more importantly, why would we NEED to exclude supplements, since j3 specifically addresses which disease we are fighting? --gejyspa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00163630f28d109d7c049154df7f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Pierre Abbat <= span dir=3D"ltr"><phma@phma.optus.= nu> wrote:
On Tuesday 28 September 2010 09:08:57 Michael Turniansky = wrote:
> =A0 I respectfully disagree with pir about "jinku"= , though. =A0I think the
> gismu is broad enough to include supplemen= ts, as well.

Do you think "tatygre jinku" is proper usage? A baby en= counters a pathogen and
passes it to the mother, who makes antibodies an= d passes them back to the
baby. It's called "diathelic immunity= " in English.

If "jinku" includes supplements, how would you specify vaccin= es?

Pierre
--
=A0
=A0 My main point was that jinku is defined as=A0 " x1 is a vacci= ne/immune-system stimulant protecting x2 against disease x3 introduced by m= ethod x4," while=A0"[v]itamin C increases the proliferative respo= nses of T lymphocytes and the production of interferon, and prevents defect= s in neutrophils ( http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v60/n1/full/16022= 61a.html#bib12=A0)"=A0 I think that effect qualifies as an immune-= system stimulant, and we certainly know that it protects against scurvy.=A0= (And if we open the door to Vitamin C, it probably should also apply to an= ything else whose lack would cause a "disease" whether or not the= y specifically stimulate the immune system and/or is a vaccine).=A0 And yea= h, tatygre jinku sounds fine to me for diathelic immunity.=A0 Perhaps an an= tibody can even be called a sevzi se jinku.=A0 If I wanted to distinguish b= etween a disease-warding supplement and vaccine?=A0=A0 That's an intere= sting question because vaccines can portect against=A0bacterial diseases, v= iral diseases, and even non-microorganism=A0toxins.=A0 And what of the elus= ive cancer vaccine(s) still being sought?=A0 So, like many interlingual thi= ngs, the dividing lines between English and lojban aren't the same, so = it would be hard (and, I submit, undesirable) to define a single term=A0 th= at encompasses all that the English word encompasses, while at the same tim= e excluding all that the English term excludes.=A0 But I would certainly sa= y that terms like virjinku, jumjinku, and vidjinku would exclude supplement= s while specifying the agents.=A0 And more importantly, why would we NEED t= o exclude supplements, since=A0j3 specifically=A0addresses which disease we= are fighting?
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa
=A0

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