From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxC8u4zlBBoEZgdi1g@googlegroups.com Wed Sep 29 04:07:29 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P0uUq-0002JH-5C; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 04:07:22 -0700 Received: by pzk7 with SMTP id 7sf293335pzk.16 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 04:06:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=lKr7HwD3FVut3lermlQqJwcPJWLQx/+Gekz7jJOPdhs=; b=JCSJoNgkyhBfpQltIho23jvnEC4+aqNlJGnwE7yNZ+ennWJEIFRcSP87yZDBrLXWCK pFFL7PV3lJEMlKsE619BxfCz0dyyynABCN9zwXRWgbGZyaRB7epooAleDeAOX9tiHTG9 OFqyzJoBlanmCmbTzQwLS3Cka1bjRWd2qtIYQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; b=w/9ouCzK1cw5lucMvnsp5cKMY11fUyML+G9CNmNQa9bIts2njCbZ8ko0Ti1PmVQm35 /0KMuzo5oC9dxCFRPWWBe3L7Pq6w18C9Ln6W9Y7g2bAXkDtiFulL0jH59yzHCnUcwDoO uqVqsRlgCI6sFEFDd+5VSqCYjSiZ8F335qh6k= Received: by 10.115.101.24 with SMTP id d24mr161220wam.6.1285758396455; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 04:06:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.115.66.21 with SMTP id t21ls500725wak.2.p; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 04:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.152.6 with SMTP id z6mr684423wad.13.1285758395503; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 04:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.152.6 with SMTP id z6mr684422wad.13.1285758395467; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 04:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id d12si10207395wam.3.2010.09.29.04.06.34; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 04:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.122; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=sPYQOJmam8qjEXwwiPGKZXTVgm+AfnVsk2mdbnz8xrY= c=1 sm=0 a=0-6EuoK05o0A:10 a=jPJDawAOAc8A:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=MP1AFiCj3PyFYdHyJ8IA:9 a=TSQtpspuEuniB36e0owmCIBReP8A:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:34066] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 37/41-09966-ABD13AC4; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:06:34 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B42E2F42 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 07:06:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Blojban=5D_Spelling_of_the_name_of_the_Lojban_in_P?= =?UTF-8?Q?olish_=28matter_of_=27Lojban=27_or_=27Lo=C5=BCban=27=29?= Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 07:06:29 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <3fb41468-d367-4724-97da-df8ca4fe7187@w19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <3fb41468-d367-4724-97da-df8ca4fe7187@w19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201009290706.31155.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday 29 September 2010 02:54:59 Marek Rogalski wrote: > This question is adressed mainly to people who (more or less) speak > polish. > > I have been translating some stuff on tiki a few minutes ago and > encountered a problem which many of you could happen to find: what > spelling of word 'Lojban' should we use in Polish? > > Since in the word 'Lojban' there is a sound represented by a letter > '=C5=BC' in Polish, spelling 'Lo=C5=BCban' would seem perfect for a phone= tic > translation (which i think is better for a spoken language). Further > problem arise when we try to place new word somewhere in a sentence. > It needs proper flexical parts to be understood correctly. We end up > with declination of word 'Lo=C5=BCban': > M Lo=C5=BCban > D Lo=C5=BCnanu > C Lo=C5=BCbanowi > B Lo=C5=BCban > N (z) Lo=C5=BCbanem > M (o) Lo=C5=BCbanie > W Lo=C5=BCbanie! > Using this method (first polonizing letters and then declinating the > word according to polish grammar) we can speak and write about lojban > words (mainly 'Lojban' name) in Polish. > > There is also other approach which is widely used (first of all on > polish 'Lojban' wiki page). In this approach we speak the same way as > in the previous. The only difference is writing word 'Lojban' as > 'Lojban' which, by native polish speakers is read rather as 'Loyban'. > When we use this method we also have to declinate the word: > M Lojban > D Lojnanu > C Lojbanowi > B Lojban > N (z) Lojbanem > M (o) Lojbanie > W Lojbanie! > I have personally met three people who encountered Lojban before, and > (in most of the cases ;) ) their reading of the word sounded like > 'loyban'. > > Writing about Lojban needs consistence in its name (read or written). > What do you think should be official spelling of the Lojban name in > Polish? I'd go with "Lo=C5=BCban". What does Polish do with names of remote languag= es,=20 which English normally takes with no "-ish" or "-ese" suffix, such as Dyirb= al=20 or Dayak? Is the dative (?) case supposed to have "n" instead of "b"? Then there are words like "gismu" and "fu'ivla". If I were writing in Russi= an,=20 I'd treat them as undeclined (as I do in English); in particular, "gismu"= =20 cannot be declined, because no declined noun ends in "u" in the nominative= =20 singular. (The obvious example is "kenguru".) In Serbo-Croatian, though, th= ey=20 decline "bungalo" as if it ended in a consonant. Pierre --=20 I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.