From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhD1gI_lBBoEHwB2UA@googlegroups.com Wed Sep 29 15:41:10 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P15Kk-0002pB-LD; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:41:10 -0700 Received: by qyk12 with SMTP id 12sf1205525qyk.16 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:41:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ZDRw/LUH2mlXjavFWG8kZDG5EQAzIedDVZnVhbLA9FA=; b=I2OLw176yqY/cpkD+KeCk2oJauJ3tZMJdMiFdLEmUWACifhg1rZS2T70L/Py57tP7X OBBqzV2dsABChgUH4rXW1RzBTFp1Zb0zOt/cDGuBqZBKM2o1fyFYnsCjJrvh/2T5r+62 Hlog2nxZQ6wJl0nkTx0CxG4wrB++uFffOhXIQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=bE2tqqPl0mCtHdupLDQkvS5eppLRI6BHVSvPdPwrfxA3IoFufxNIvDiXRcymmbT2Q0 3t2EDvo5FzVvDheffsmQkJVY+ua+kR2LIwOCCyuopR7ec9G0sD1/U659iBBYW4jnwCIb 2uxB9ZKEhV1/7kqKKWrFA07llp3yIn+HOSmHs= Received: by 10.224.21.162 with SMTP id j34mr149625qab.41.1285800053892; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:40:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.26.69 with SMTP id d5ls301445qac.7.p; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.104.67 with SMTP id n3mr485605qao.9.1285800053205; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.104.67 with SMTP id n3mr485604qao.9.1285800053150; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f177.google.com (mail-qy0-f177.google.com [209.85.216.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id x2si5265738qcq.11.2010.09.29.15.40.52; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.177; Received: by qyk34 with SMTP id 34so2045944qyk.15 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:40:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.94.68 with SMTP id y4mr426267vcm.102.1285800051934; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.200.5 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:40:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201009291830.09258.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201009291837.57382.jezuch@interia.pl> <201009291830.09258.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:40:51 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] To Polish fellow lojbanists From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636284da85906c904916da7ba --001636284da85906c904916da7ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Wednesday 29 September 2010 17:01:20 Jonathan Jones wrote: > > IIRC, pronouncing {'} as "h" was at one point in time optional, in the > same > > way that adding the "i" in "fit" (or any other very short vowel) is > > optional for difficult consonant clusters, as in {zdani} (ZiDANI). I'm > not > > certain when it was decided the {'} = "h" stopped being optional, but I > > say, if you want to pronounce {mi'e} as {mi,e}, all that really matters > is > > that you're understood. > > That would work with "mi'e", as there is no word "mie", but it wouldn't > work > with "pe'i" or "ta'i" as the words "pei" and "tai" exist and are in the > same > respective selma'o. Commas make no difference to the identity of a word. > > Pierre > -- > li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa I disagree. {pei} is pronounced "pay", but {pe,i} is pronounced "pe EE". If you had argued {pe,i} could be confused with {pe .i}, then I would've agreed. -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001636284da85906c904916da7ba Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Pierre = Abbat <phma@phma= .optus.nu> wrote:
On Wednesday 29 September 2010 17:01:20 Jonathan Jones wr= ote:
> IIRC, pronouncing {'} as "h" was at one point in time op= tional, in the same
> way that adding the "i" in "fit" (or any other ver= y short vowel) is
> optional for difficult consonant clusters, as in {zdani} (ZiDANI). I&#= 39;m not
> certain when it was decided the {'} =3D "h" stopped bein= g optional, but I
> say, if you want to pronounce {mi'e} as {mi,e}, all that really ma= tters is
> that you're understood.

That would work with "mi'e", as there is no word "= mie", but it wouldn't work
with "pe'i" or "ta'i" as the words "pei&qu= ot; and "tai" exist and are in the same
respective selma'o. Commas make no difference to the identity of a word= .

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa
I disagree. {pei} is pronounced "pay", but {pe,i} is pronounced= "pe EE". If you had argued {pe,i} could be confused with {pe .i}= , then I would've agreed.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le= bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to= the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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