From lojban+bncCK7Yk5CUCxD8l5HlBBoEPJnGug@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 30 01:36:30 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P1Ecq-0006sm-B3; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:36:29 -0700 Received: by fxm17 with SMTP id 17sf450439fxm.16 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:36:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :message-id:date:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Vhb+wyHpx/50Bk32tcvMqJxQFMMhrJiSpi09tQOZBsM=; b=Hw3YMHSZNIaCImbr1CpNyk9wHkSbf7Aqck2eu73fr2zc0hCgsxphrz+uH14pal8DTK OV31Na1g4k9r9vnNDwo2rUUC7BP8MRH1q1a0qs7rlABmn4IXFNBrVJSzWihWAhAxdjju lI4r6Y2XN/0l6Iw7aJ4rHSfS50jvZ+VZ+nBgw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:message-id:date :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=eWubDud6LYLghayw7m5KtOsiNjBkIKyw7XInxGfIb2T3pQoaFHQ5sEAuedbJByLjLo 3sqSCOOKVXDw/F74JBkI2y4JNitE/hZ0edZWR2tyI64o969YSQJJRplnKyuyKnj5S/+O Hs8uGCQU8HdXsX1lD7627sCiSzJoqWxKl+rX0= Received: by 10.223.7.21 with SMTP id b21mr183857fab.8.1285835772587; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:36:12 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.223.32.142 with SMTP id c14ls544990fad.2.p; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.118.68 with SMTP id u4mr492991faq.16.1285835771471; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.118.68 with SMTP id u4mr492990faq.16.1285835771439; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f71.google.com (mail-fx0-f71.google.com [209.85.161.71]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l23si2513304fam.6.2010.09.30.01.36.11; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.71 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.71; Received: by fxm8 with SMTP id 8so260330fxm.6 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.114.204 with SMTP id f12mr396800faq.5.1285835771164; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0016e6d27ed2614072049175f8b2@google.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:36:11 +0000 Subject: Re: Re: [lojban] To Polish fellow lojbanists From: rdentato@gmail.com To: lojban X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.71 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d27ed261405f049175f8af --0016e6d27ed261405f049175f8af Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Even if I was very tempted of using silent {'} (it's only sound that is very difficult for Italians) I agree that this is not a good idea. The problem is how to force a TTS (and specifically IVONA that is so good) to emit a sound that would be an acceptable rendition of it. I'm not clear how we could use "th" as other suggested. Does it mean that we could pronounce {pe'i} as "pethi"? On , Stela Selckiku wrote: > 2010/9/30 Krzysztof Sobolewski jezuch@interia.pl>: > > > > {ei} is a diphtong; we don't have "official" diphtongs in Polish, but > > the difference between "pei" (for {pe'i}) and "pej" (for {pei}) is > > very clear. When I want to be really precise when I'm writing > > "phonetically" using Polish ortography, I write "pe-i" for {pe'i} > > (assuming silent {'}, of course). > I don't mean to be a downer, but I really don't think that inventing > this new (non)pronunciation for {'} is a good idea at all. You should > just learn to produce one of the official pronunciations of {'}. > We've all had to learn a few new sounds to pronounce Lojban-- {x} and > final {e} and initial {zd} and {ml} caused me trouble at first, for > instance. We don't always get it right (I certainly don't always) but > we've come to an agreement over time about what's sufficiently > distinct and what's Lojbanic. It'll do your mouth good to learn > something new anyway. Both of the usual pronunciations of {'} are > necessary for speaking English properly, for instance (which you've > clearly put some work into studying, since you write it quite well), > as well as many other languages. > mi'e > la stela selckiku > mu'o > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6d27ed261405f049175f8af Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if I was very tempted of using silent {'} (it's only sound tha= t is very difficult for Italians) I agree that this is not a good idea. The= problem is how to force a TTS (and specifically IVONA that is so good) to = emit a sound that would be an acceptable rendition of it.

I'= m not clear how we could use "th" as other suggested. Does it mea= n that we could pronounce {pe'i} as "pethi"?

On , = Stela Selckiku <selckiku@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2010/9/30 Krzysz= tof Sobolewski jezuch@interia.pl>:
>
> >
> <= br />> > {ei} is a diphtong; we don't have "official" d= iphtongs in Polish, but
>
> > the difference between &q= uot;pei" (for {pe'i}) and "pej" (for {pei}) is
>=
> > very clear. When I want to be really precise when I'm = writing
>
> > "phonetically" using Polish ort= ography, I write "pe-i" for {pe'i}
>
> > = (assuming silent {'}, of course).
>
>
>
> I don't mean to be a downer, but I really don't think that in= venting
>
> this new (non)pronunciation for {'} is a g= ood idea at all. =A0You should
>
> just learn to produce o= ne of the official pronunciations of {'}.
>
> We'v= e all had to learn a few new sounds to pronounce Lojban-- {x} and
>=
> final {e} and initial {zd} and {ml} caused me trouble at first,= for
>
> instance. =A0We don't always get it right (I = certainly don't always) but
>
> we've come to an a= greement over time about what's sufficiently
>
> disti= nct and what's Lojbanic. =A0It'll do your mouth good to learn
= >
> something new anyway. =A0Both of the usual pronunciations o= f {'} are
>
> necessary for speaking English properly,= for instance (which you've
>
> clearly put some work = into studying, since you write it quite well),
>
> as well= as many other languages.
>
>
>
> mi'= ;e
>
>
>
> la stela selckiku
> <= br />>
>
> mu'o
>
>
> > --
>
> You received this message because you are = subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
>
&= gt; To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>=
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscrib= e@googlegroups.com.
>
> For more options, visit this group= at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> >

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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