From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxCZ-JHlBBoE2-mmcA@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 30 05:01:46 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P1HpU-0003lV-P6; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 05:01:46 -0700 Received: by pzk7 with SMTP id 7sf1037187pzk.16 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 05:01:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=1uqxbhdu7M3Mrc49/5z72uZGaZ+3WWNts0hDdB+vk64=; b=sAi96G/Zs7qXYdU6A2Weqz8tgOVkN7vXVzBRNqZhZ68mq3yR+gDKMiiydbdpuAmaxg Enu53bvDUGzhhAvup9mqXnjY5Nk5hzfDtPB8g1WgRxc8ty2U+Q0K2k26/8lEGH2rPPYS B/eZu4UGVl7CXbfcorkVhTpXcLjdMqLFlQnkA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; b=NpXS59PAMEMiXAvwzzNm3zOiPfgjfnClF5bvaGsYeFWUkkIf99lOQbkGvDFpGayiPy cJhu5USy5LXM02TatDwvce0lGTLJXLGfM+14cCuByPAtAmXU6bhQymUIxVlGmA68Zo/A 8nGeR0v9qhWW7ii3DAYxrQbSWyMTNpGgFBOk4= Received: by 10.115.101.24 with SMTP id d24mr291122wam.6.1285848089135; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 05:01:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.115.67.12 with SMTP id u12ls1628078wak.3.p; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 05:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.94.18 with SMTP id r18mr1350573wab.16.1285848088350; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 05:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.94.18 with SMTP id r18mr1350572wab.16.1285848088314; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 05:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id d12si11852930wam.7.2010.09.30.05.01.27; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 05:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.123; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=R3xZCyK5Rzzq4RgmEA8QIQ3hFZTdsD3z+kRPUs1QTwQ= c=1 sm=0 a=16vxQhsou_YA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=WeL7bs86a1T4b4Ton-wA:9 a=J8-bi2edQC87d3eJU1AA:7 a=1KRaGohYy8aLhDP1MFvN3o2zggMA:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:36443] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id D7/55-06710-71C74AC4; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 12:01:27 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84D7376D6 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:01:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] To Polish fellow lojbanists Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:01:20 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <201009291830.09258.phma@phma.optus.nu> <201009300835.18694.jezuch@interia.pl> In-Reply-To: <201009300835.18694.jezuch@interia.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201009300801.24131.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday 30 September 2010 02:35:15 Krzysztof Sobolewski wrote: > {ei} is a diphtong; we don't have "official" diphtongs in Polish, but the > difference between "pei" (for {pe'i}) and "pej" (for {pei}) is very clear= . > When I want to be really precise when I'm writing "phonetically" using > Polish ortography, I write "pe-i" for {pe'i} (assuming silent {'}, of > course). In Lojban [p=C9=9Bi] and [p=C9=9B.i] are the same word, while [p=C9=9Bhi] i= s a different=20 word. Whether the first two would be the same in Polish is irrelevant.=20 Languages differ in how they divide sound space. Another example, from Romance languages: I once was talking about the jatob= =C3=A1=20 (fr:courbaril, es:guapinol, jbo:kurbarile), which is an ingredient in an=20 herbal medicine I take, with a Brazilian, who deals in woods, including=20 jatob=C3=A1. I said [=CA=92ato'ba]. He corrected me: it's [=CA=92at=C9=94'b= a]. In French, as far=20 as I know, [=C9=94] occurs only in closed syllables (a minimal pair=20 is "saute/sotte"), while in Spanish there is no distinction between [=C9=94= ] and=20 [o]. (The English realization of [=C9=94] and [o] is different, so even tho= ugh=20 English is my first language, I relied on French, my second, when speaking= =20 Portuguese.) Pierre --=20 The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.