From lojban+bncCJbznvHdFRDHpZPlBBoEF1dMvw@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 30 11:11:35 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P1NbP-0004Lk-1w; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:11:35 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf587850wwe.16 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:11:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ryIw/NPjP5IrP3E9dmA6qGWpvncmVbqJsXGhLuwsSRo=; b=1V1H/xmlvTeuSnr0SALHIfS94OEczQroFDr9D0q7zRqbfdklmt6zTjEbe3k+WAapz7 kAHrGUNpSTnyzT8bN62//cXWjkAtqGg8JSyWvnc0bLN+9SENpSlIrMFziYR0lwlGWI7c g/LKb2LVW/maXpsR8cYTJbHF17V+gzkFyTzRY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=XqPRb60BAI92H5dTqVojfmi/7YLKRwMFMB0klSBqJGat+8uznfBwMXMCHjK1FlaEDJ 6PA+eyn4pN786vc0nSLyJ5U0jwp5dWwXhHkBpE6YgBG3DX3RDhEvkcDb4TbXSmwd0968 37s01EcNLsKlX3ibnym13sIRAKbwXvU3JZ5p4= Received: by 10.216.144.38 with SMTP id m38mr926262wej.14.1285870279465; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:11:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.101.19 with SMTP id a19ls776594wbo.3.p; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.128.76 with SMTP id j12mr167516wbs.19.1285870278093; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.128.76 with SMTP id j12mr167515wbs.19.1285870278052; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f179.google.com (mail-wy0-f179.google.com [74.125.82.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q13si46610wbs.0.2010.09.30.11.11.16; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.179; Received: by wyb42 with SMTP id 42so3497819wyb.10 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.73.133 with SMTP id v5mr3427816wed.21.1285870276792; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:11:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.8.144 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:10:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0016e6d27ed2614072049175f8b2@google.com> References: <0016e6d27ed2614072049175f8b2@google.com> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 14:10:55 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Re: [lojban] To Polish fellow lojbanists To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502caa51357c504917e015a --00504502caa51357c504917e015a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Exactly so: pethi for {pe'i}. There has to be some sound for {'}, whether it's /h/ or /th/. It can't be silent. And: I have no problem differentiating between {i'i} and {ixi}. stevo On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 4:36 AM, wrote: > Even if I was very tempted of using silent {'} (it's only sound that is > very difficult for Italians) I agree that this is not a good idea. The > problem is how to force a TTS (and specifically IVONA that is so good) to > emit a sound that would be an acceptable rendition of it. > > I'm not clear how we could use "th" as other suggested. Does it mean that > we could pronounce {pe'i} as "pethi"? > > > On , Stela Selckiku wrote: > > 2010/9/30 Krzysztof Sobolewski jezuch@interia.pl>: > > > > > > > > > > {ei} is a diphtong; we don't have "official" diphtongs in Polish, but > > > > > the difference between "pei" (for {pe'i}) and "pej" (for {pei}) is > > > > > very clear. When I want to be really precise when I'm writing > > > > > "phonetically" using Polish ortography, I write "pe-i" for {pe'i} > > > > > (assuming silent {'}, of course). > > > > > > > > I don't mean to be a downer, but I really don't think that inventing > > > > this new (non)pronunciation for {'} is a good idea at all. You should > > > > just learn to produce one of the official pronunciations of {'}. > > > > We've all had to learn a few new sounds to pronounce Lojban-- {x} and > > > > final {e} and initial {zd} and {ml} caused me trouble at first, for > > > > instance. We don't always get it right (I certainly don't always) but > > > > we've come to an agreement over time about what's sufficiently > > > > distinct and what's Lojbanic. It'll do your mouth good to learn > > > > something new anyway. Both of the usual pronunciations of {'} are > > > > necessary for speaking English properly, for instance (which you've > > > > clearly put some work into studying, since you write it quite well), > > > > as well as many other languages. > > > > > > > > mi'e > > > > > > > > la stela selckiku > > > > > > > > mu'o > > > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > > > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00504502caa51357c504917e015a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Exactly so: pethi for {pe'i}. There has to be some sound for {'= ;}, whether it's /h/ or /th/. It can't be silent.
And: I have no problem differentiating between {i'i} and {ixi}.
=A0
stevo

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 4:36 AM, <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
Even if I was very tempted of us= ing silent {'} (it's only sound that is very difficult for Italians= ) I agree that this is not a good idea. The problem is how to force a TTS (= and specifically IVONA that is so good) to emit a sound that would be an ac= ceptable rendition of it.

I'm not clear how we could use "th" as other suggested. D= oes it mean that we could pronounce {pe'i} as "pethi"?=20


On , Stela Selckiku <selckiku@gmail.com> wrote:
> 20= 10/9/30 Krzysztof Sobolewski jezuch@interia.pl>:
>
> >
>
> > {ei} is a diphtong; we don't h= ave "official" diphtongs in Polish, but
>
> > the= difference between "pei" (for {pe'i}) and "pej" (f= or {pei}) is
>
> > very clear. When I want to be really precise when I'= m writing
>
> > "phonetically" using Polish ortog= raphy, I write "pe-i" for {pe'i}
>
> > (assum= ing silent {'}, of course).
>
>
>
> I don't mean to be a downer, but I real= ly don't think that inventing
>
> this new (non)pronunciat= ion for {'} is a good idea at all. =A0You should
>
> just = learn to produce one of the official pronunciations of {'}.
>
> We've all had to learn a few new sounds to pronounce Lojb= an-- {x} and
>
> final {e} and initial {zd} and {ml} caused me= trouble at first, for
>
> instance. =A0We don't always ge= t it right (I certainly don't always) but
>
> we've come to an agreement over time about what's suf= ficiently
>
> distinct and what's Lojbanic. =A0It'll d= o your mouth good to learn
>
> something new anyway. =A0Both o= f the usual pronunciations of {'} are
>
> necessary for speaking English properly, for instance (which = you've
>
> clearly put some work into studying, since you = write it quite well),
>
> as well as many other languages.
>
>
>
> mi'e
>
>
>
>= la stela selckiku
>
>
>
> mu'o
>
= >
>
> --
>
> You received this message becaus= e you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
>
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> <= br>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@go= oglegroups.com.
>
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.c= om/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
>
>=20

--
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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