From lojban+bncCICntNPQBRDDy6XkBBoE0sHOig@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 09 15:55:22 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Otq1R-0003wx-EB; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:55:22 -0700 Received: by yxs7 with SMTP id 7sf1676217yxs.16 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:55:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Iml7A+QEFKK3PzkQwdoOlwQQ+eHUC0ksMMv3eswYqoA=; b=uHGVSnO/9dJPqFLDXvpGi/bM8oTsk+UkRWt0444m/eqSdmBOySp/OB1XiYH4F1Umcp tjkJRQTF789+eQx2JyMTZ5npaAEiexsYcsHFNKxzxfpC9TawPlEFgsqDOohwthU069xi ulM2n3SaB9eJG6v3B5/o6ILl1DNsudrJXHaDU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=EvwbwJ3aBHeXQrb9Vngzxk7tZOkuBiHWJHw1vNXxGqkBa+2YLFiVkNIgi5K/FWT1l8 /M7zzB7ach2zqVbUB6tdVPGBnViCkF7vkiHGldPwlGfUZu4U0cRBtaKbOnPHhadpJWKg lvFOpwauyl7MEnDzGaiJxRLpqdsLV3Zh8yNdI= Received: by 10.100.233.35 with SMTP id f35mr690295anh.0.1284072899454; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:54:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.208.33 with SMTP id k33ls2944849anq.0.p; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:54:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.175.31 with SMTP id c31mr689942anp.29.1284072898863; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by u5g2000prn.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Thu, 9 Sep 2010 15:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 15:54:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 32.174.183.170 References: User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100723 Ubuntu/10.04 (lucid) Firefox/3.6.8,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: lo jbove'a cukta From: Lindar To: lojban X-Original-Sender: lindarthebard@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 While you and others may not agree, I have spent a LOT of time in the past two months teaching students, and I find that they all have a much better grasp of terminators, and thus have fewer problems understanding the grammar in general, when {cu} is not taught. It is, in my opinion, a crutch that people rely upon far too much. One should learn "is not" before "isn't" and "I am" before "I'm" lest people for some reason start confusing your/you're in both meaning and pronunciation. =D Also, CLL is not meant for learning. It's a lovely resource, but many in the modern and active teaching community including myself and kribacr believe that it teaches Lojban incorrectly, and starts habits which result in very bad Lojban (namely in that a frighteningly large number of people believe {cu} is required at all ever). I can't say much for L4B, except that I prefer the more modern Wave Lesson to it as I have seen first hand how it produces better results and speakers with a better understanding of the language. So, while you may not understand the argument, I do ask of you that you leave the terminators in and only use {cu} where I have done so. It provides a better ease of readability and falls in line with the pedagogy we've established, which we have seen produces better students. Learning the shortcut first has never resulted in a proper understanding of anything, and that's exactly what {cu} is. I would indeed greatly appreciate that. =D -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.