From lojban+bncCIGHwM2rDhD2iabkBBoEOATMkA@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 09 18:08:25 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ots6H-00072g-0p; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:08:24 -0700 Received: by qyk12 with SMTP id 12sf2280851qyk.16 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:08:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from :to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; bh=9X7a44gdp+hinaHSZ2888dkQM9VK+vR1egJIpEPkhzI=; b=PDdoDruYq6vKnAfr4Jt45E8UF2WGkuF3DAJCsJi6ucIs3OE/I4x6S/2G16C18XO4Pm apks5zmXPOLvMD69/DB66d4ANbg6uf5egO68qwKehkQ0rd14XPbTAkHFjsOfInzphbrU SGpE9p2hQAa1tt/WF38owIxu58KHT+TaZGTYc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=0IrtJD0wtZgsu66gK9RL/9Hs1zeAkzqaWP7MAgckF3/d2IFxZ9SAfxGc+wqpuQqzPT r0yttWDy/g9bwT3UN94hIOJBfDgAD5eUKIkpsR2kNJQy05fUokXA8RFo+aWsdhBq33bK C1pcgWz4NUIqVVLPt62BdI5Q5+nSYKuNPUPhc= Received: by 10.224.140.135 with SMTP id i7mr437034qau.28.1284080886422; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:08:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.66.155 with SMTP id n27ls1451364qai.5.p; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.74.21 with SMTP id s21mr314760qaj.21.1284080885449; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.61.1 with SMTP id j1mr3892waa.31.1284080226138; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.61.1 with SMTP id j1mr3889waa.31.1284080225863; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pv0-f175.google.com (mail-pv0-f175.google.com [74.125.83.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id k37si2375168wae.6.2010.09.09.17.57.05; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 74.125.83.175 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=74.125.83.175; Received: by pvg6 with SMTP id 6so865380pvg.34 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.185.4 with SMTP id i4mr199343wff.28.1284080225599; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.167.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm2254696wfd.12.2010.09.09.17.57.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 18:56:59 -0600 From: Alan Post To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: lo jbove'a cukta Message-ID: <20100910005659.GA80130@alice.local> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alanpost@sunflowerriver.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 74.125.83.175 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 03:54:58PM -0700, Lindar wrote: > While you and others may not agree, I have spent a LOT of time in the > past two months teaching students, and I find that they all have a > much better grasp of terminators, and thus have fewer problems > understanding the grammar in general, when {cu} is not taught. It is, > in my opinion, a crutch that people rely upon far too much. One should > learn "is not" before "isn't" and "I am" before "I'm" lest people for > some reason start confusing your/you're in both meaning and > pronunciation. =D > > Also, CLL is not meant for learning. It's a lovely resource, but many > in the modern and active teaching community including myself and > kribacr believe that it teaches Lojban incorrectly, and starts habits > which result in very bad Lojban (namely in that a frighteningly large > number of people believe {cu} is required at all ever). I can't say > much for L4B, except that I prefer the more modern Wave Lesson to it > as I have seen first hand how it produces better results and speakers > with a better understanding of the language. > > So, while you may not understand the argument, I do ask of you that > you leave the terminators in and only use {cu} where I have done so. > It provides a better ease of readability and falls in line with the > pedagogy we've established, which we have seen produces better > students. Learning the shortcut first has never resulted in a proper > understanding of anything, and that's exactly what {cu} is. > > I would indeed greatly appreciate that. =D > +1 -Alan -- ko djuno fi le do sevzi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. 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