From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDH0q7lBBoEX-PVgw@googlegroups.com Tue Oct 05 15:40:29 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P3GBM-0002pW-KE; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:40:29 -0700 Received: by gxk9 with SMTP id 9sf5155344gxk.16 for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:40:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=2NTaI59nr28JEGqD7IMXChHpUIJr6XN0SKb6cKQFxws=; b=ORCmm4x4O4e+5Sao4ma6BdRQKH7wXpYtQKcVbRKlU8dBdkjJhe7ApDICq/6wPvkh1L /DZYBiKKoGwOM/Zb9wvasmyYQWwcBkcZUZSFVp9PEVEX9GYvObtneRk+eGh2a6SlQf+5 qsqGY5vsZcBroV7w7aULonRMypW4g0BnUS5kE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=AbbgBAZZ8KY0HRwZx8kEcc4RlmSgt+o7bGaRLR2gTeC2eiJKIRUXJTMBN3Ac80qX0W J1ZjsKwCW0PgESZv3GhrperwfV0XIiKYsBRTQ4d2+aVFM6v2yHv2Q0ZDTMlcae/OtvKH 7FGKryNc2/dLBA6NAUtIvPr98nREzVOwKXlas= Received: by 10.101.52.20 with SMTP id e20mr235548ank.49.1286318407343; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:40:07 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.194.29 with SMTP id w29ls2945345anp.1.p; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.154.16 with SMTP id b16mr3239287ane.53.1286318406818; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.154.16 with SMTP id b16mr3239286ane.53.1286318406794; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f171.google.com (mail-gx0-f171.google.com [209.85.161.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l14si47409ang.2.2010.10.05.15.40.05; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.171; Received: by gxk6 with SMTP id 6so2621573gxk.30 for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:40:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.96.138 with SMTP id j10mr340482icn.197.1286318405566; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.206.16 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Oct 2010 15:40:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010011823.25227.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4CA76670.50601@lojban.org> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 16:40:05 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] la za'e filjvocedra (The Age of Easy Lujvo) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30363aeda1c1130491e6571f --20cf30363aeda1c1130491e6571f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/10/5 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > > Doesn't the CLL talk somewhere about how making monday be 1 works for a= ll > > cultures because sunday can be day 0 or day 7. > > It might, I don't exactly remember. What do YOU think (about the > issue, not about what CLL says)? How well would "mumdei" work for > "Friday" for someone whose word for "Thurday" is something like "fifth > day". Or for a Swahili speaker, whose word for Wednesday is something > like "fifth day". I don't really know, because in the languages I know > the weekdays are not called by numbers, but my guess is that switching > from one number to a different number could be quite confusing, > independently of whether Sunday is day 0 or day 7. > > > Personally that's how I > > remember weekday names in lojban anyway, I call sunday nondei. > > Right, you don't have any interference from English, which doesn't use > numbers to name the days of the week. I don't have interference from > Spanish either. I'm just speculating on what people who do have > inteference from their native language would think about this. > > > I don't really care what the system is for naming days but it seems lik= e > > they should be sequential in some way in stead of seemingly random name= s. > > e.g. I prefer pavmasti to vormasti > > Any numerical sequence is unfortunately going to be in conflict with > some languages, because there are three different numerical systems in > use. > > We can just say we don't care, we'll go with the ISO norm and if that > is horribly confusing for speakers of some languages, so be it, not > our problem. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > Works for me. I can see how people who are native to number-using languages that don't start monday=3D1-day could be confused, but I somehow doubt that someone from those languages who is serious about learning the language would change their mind because of it. In any case, until we decide on a single scheme and use it exclusively, which seems much more important to me than exactly what that system is, I'd say any discussion about such confusions is moot. --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --20cf30363aeda1c1130491e6571f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2010/10/5 Jorge Llamb=EDas <= ;jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't the CLL talk somewhere about how making monday be 1 works = for all
> cultures because sunday can be day 0 or day 7.

It might, I don't exactly remember. What do YOU think (about the<= br> issue, not about what CLL says)? How well would "mumdei" work for=
"Friday" for someone whose word for "Thurday" is someth= ing like "fifth
day". Or for a Swahili speaker, whose word for Wednesday is something<= br> like "fifth day". I don't really know, because in the languag= es I know
the weekdays are not called by numbers, but my guess is that switching
from one number to a different number could be quite confusing,
independently of whether Sunday is day 0 or day 7.

>=A0Personally that's how I
> remember weekday names in lojban anyway, I call sunday nondei.

Right, you don't have any interference from English, which doesn&= #39;t use
numbers to name the days of the week. I don't have interference from Spanish either. I'm just speculating on what people who do have
inteference from their native language would think about this.

> I don't really care what the system is for naming days but it seem= s like
> they should be sequential in some way in stead of seemingly random nam= es.
> =A0e.g. I prefer pavmasti to vormasti

Any numerical sequence is unfortunately going to be in conflict with<= br> some languages, because there are three different numerical systems in
use.

We can just say we don't care, we'll go with the ISO norm and if th= at
is horribly confusing for speakers of some languages, so be it, not
our problem.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

Works for me. I can see how people who a= re native to number-using languages that don't start monday=3D1-day cou= ld be confused, but I somehow doubt that someone from those languages who i= s serious about learning the language would change their mind because of it= .

In any case, until we decide on a single scheme and use it exclusively,= which seems much more important to me than exactly what that system is, I&= #39;d say any discussion about such confusions is moot.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le= bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to= the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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