From lojban+bncCK6u3p69DBCm4a_lBBoEBQ3aKg@googlegroups.com Tue Oct 05 20:44:57 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P3Kw1-00036e-Fc; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:44:57 -0700 Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10sf3442014qyk.16 for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:44:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:received :references:to:subject:date:x-aol-ip:in-reply-to:x-mb-message-source :mime-version:from:x-mb-message-type:x-mailer:received:message-id :x-spam-flag:x-aol-sender:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xamiRAL50ZSjgiaz6RzjlxWtrqZjFoHOm4KXwiF6Ti4=; b=s39cNXn/FyxT/E/mwdw5Pli8LF/PCHISch4Gw3mSvNxVQawYhjPpfeaGyY8KSSiJUh ohNEnc3auhButn3EHWpUKsKOD6wpjrhuvoGVY+r8szZxnpJTnqccnPiR1kbbD+E/JT4N X9sZUUnUNSWRlJH7Lbj3vPEzJAR6uvf2nEvzQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:references:to:subject:date:x-aol-ip :in-reply-to:x-mb-message-source:mime-version:from:x-mb-message-type :x-mailer:message-id:x-spam-flag:x-aol-sender:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=aDhNiNqXuNpd+NvAy35RCokQiBg9SCKsAzsvwLcizFdo7hCWSv8tilTCc1gl5BNsYm qezOy1uD2IU7YRJmc1N8w70gCln96EJaMZrbZN7zRmuunyTGdhSu5fbFWh7X1zMk/H6N CLsI0A4VVprHMKZK1ItAybCXztYWzsY9g9Wt0= Received: by 10.220.193.9 with SMTP id ds9mr25706vcb.5.1286336678891; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:44:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.183.198 with SMTP id ch6ls510600vcb.2.p; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.178.194 with SMTP id bn2mr233160vcb.25.1286336678041; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.178.194 with SMTP id bn2mr233158vcb.25.1286336677998; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (imr-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.206.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m16si128487vcr.10.2010.10.05.20.44.37; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of Thirderivative@aol.com designates 64.12.206.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.12.206.41; Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o963iPsP019864 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2010 23:44:25 -0400 Received: from Thirderivative@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id r.e46.abcd868 (34956) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2010 23:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-de02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-de02.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.169]) by cia-da06.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA065-b2364cabf09427f; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:44:23 -0400 Received: from webmail-m080 (webmail-m080.sim.aol.com [64.12.141.38]) by smtprly-de02.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDE023-b2364cabf09427f; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:44:20 -0400 References: To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] A suggestion for the Lojban names of weekdays and months. Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:44:20 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.8.216.14 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Seth X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 32761-STANDARD Received: from 76.8.216.14 by webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com (64.12.141.38) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:44:20 -0400 Message-Id: <8CD331FE4B3F3ED-1CD8-7F58@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: Thirderivative@aol.com X-Original-Sender: thirderivative@aol.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of Thirderivative@aol.com designates 64.12.206.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=Thirderivative@aol.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD331FE4B8B6B1_1CD8_1020C_webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com" ----------MB_8CD331FE4B8B6B1_1CD8_1020C_webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 i like that idea. i don't really have problems with it, and it seems to sol= ve the problems of the traditional way. I, too, favor numbered days over co= ncept days. -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com; lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:54 pm Subject: [lojban] A suggestion for the Lojban names of weekdays and months. (I'm double-posting this to both lojban lists, please respond on the beginn= er's.) ----- Days: ----- A discussion about the names of the weekdays was recently held in the threa= d "[lojban] la za'e filjvocedra (The Age of Easy Lujvo)", about the pros an= d cons of the two current methods of naming the days of the week - one base= d on numbers, the other on concepts. {pavdei} "1-day" =3D {lurdei} "moon-da= y", to provide an example. In this discussion, .xorxes. pointed out that the current number method is = anti-intuitive, because it seems as though, for example {mumdei} would mean= "five days", not "fifth day". As corollary, he pointed out two examples: {= reljeftu}, "fortnight", and {mumymentu}, "five minutes". To quote him, "[T]= he place structure of {djedi} screams for 'N-dei' to mean {djedi be li N}, = not {djedi me'e li N}." Personally, I found this to be a very convincing argument against the use o= f {pavdei} et al. as names of weekdays. It is also, if I am correct, his ma= in reason for preferring the concept way. I, on the other hand, do not like the concept method, for the simple reason= that I really, really like having a systematic method, and that is anythin= g but. After more discussion, I came up with the following, which is agreea= ble to both .xorxes. and me. It's actually basically the exact same thing as {pavdei}, etc., except back= wards. So, they would be: {djeno} "0-day"/{djeze} "7-day" =3D Sunday {djepa} "1-day" =3D Monday {djere} "2-day" =3D Tuesday {djeci} "3-day" =3D Wednesday {djevo} "4-day" =3D Thursday {djemu} "5-day" =3D Friday {djexa} "6-day" =3D Saturday All eight of the above words have the exact same meaning as both current me= thods: "x1 is a [weekday name] of week x2 in month x3" The benefits of this method are that it is logical, systematic, and doesn't= conflict with spans (as in {mumdei} =3D "a five day span"). The con is, obviously, they take up 8 spots in gismu space, which may or ma= y not be an atrocity, depending on your viewpoint. ----- Months: ----- Through further discussion, we have also come up with a really good method = for month-naming. Currently, the only Lojban words we have for the months a= re cmevla, i.e. {.pamast.}, {.remast.}, etc. .xorxes. came up with a really= good alternative, similar to my idea with the weeks, for each of the month= s, which are the following fu'ivla, based around {lunra}: {lunrapa} "1-month" =3D January {lunrare} "2-month" =3D February {lunraci} "3-month" =3D March {lunravo} "4-month" =3D April {lunramu} "5-month" =3D May {lunraxa} "6-month" =3D June {lunraze} "7-month" =3D July {lunrabi} "8-month" =3D August {lunraso} "9-month" =3D September {lunradau} "10-month" =3D October {lunrafei} "11-month" =3D November {lunragai} "12-month" =3D December This has the advantage over the current cmevla method in that, being fu'ivl= a, we can give them place structure and use them in all the ways cmene can = NOT be used. I don't see any cons at all, but I may be mistaken. Since it is .xorxes. idea, I direct you to him for the proposed definitions= , although I'm certain that it will begin "x1 is month N ...." ----- In conclusion, it is my desire to inform the whole of jbogugde about these = ideas and to get feedback , and to possibly confuse you lot to start using = them whenever you are talking about days of the week or about months. Feedback, suggestions, criticisms, praise, and flaming are all welcome and = appreciated. :D (I'm double-posting this to both lojban lists, please respond on the beginn= er's.) --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. ----------MB_8CD331FE4B8B6B1_1CD8_1020C_webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 i like that idea. i don't really have problem= s with it, and it seems to solve the problems of the traditional way. I, to= o, favor numbered days over concept days.



-----= Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com; lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:54 pm
Subject: [lojban] A suggestion for the Lojban names of weekdays and months.=

(I'm double-posting this to both lojban lists, please respond on the beginn= er's.)
-----
Days:
-----

A discussion about the names of the weekdays was recently held in the threa= d "[lojban] la za'e filjvocedra (The Age of Easy Lujvo)", about the pros an= d cons of the two current methods of naming the days of the week - one base= d on numbers, the other on concepts. {pavdei} "1-day" =3D {lurdei} "moon-da= y", to provide an example.

In this discussion, .xorxes. pointed out that the current number method is = anti-intuitive, because it seems as though, for example {mumdei} would mean= "five days", not "fifth day". As corollary, he pointed out two examples: {= reljeftu}, "fortnight", and {mumymentu}, "five minutes". To quote him, "[T]= he place structure of {djedi} screams for 'N-dei' to mean {djedi be li N}, = not {djedi me'e li N}."

Personally, I found this to be a very convincing argument against the use o= f {pavdei} et al. as names of weekdays. It is also, if I am correct, his ma= in reason for preferring the concept way.

I, on the other hand, do not like the concept method, for the simple reason= that I really, really like having a systematic method, and that is anythin= g but. After more discussion, I came up with the following, which is agreea= ble to both .xorxes. and me.

It's actually basically the exact same thing as {pavdei}, etc., except back= wards. So, they would be:

{djeno} "0-day"/{djeze} "7-day" =3D Sunday
{djepa} "1-day" =3D Monday
{djere} "2-day" =3D Tuesday
{djeci} "3-day" =3D Wednesday
{djevo} "4-day" =3D Thursday
{djemu} "5-day" =3D Friday
{djexa} "6-day" =3D Saturday

All eight of the above words have the exact same meaning as both current me= thods: "x1 is a [weekday name] of week x2 in month x3"

The benefits of this method are that it is logical, systematic, and doesn't= conflict with spans (as in {mumdei} =3D "a five day span").

The con is, obviously, they take up 8 spots in gismu space, which may or ma= y not be an atrocity, depending on your viewpoint.

-----
Months:
-----

Through further discussion, we have also come up with a really good method = for month-naming. Currently, the only Lojban words we have for the months a= re cmevla, i.e. {.pamast.}, {.remast.}, etc. .xorxes. came up with a really= good alternative, similar to my idea with the weeks, for each of the month= s, which are the following fu'ivla, based around {lunra}:

{lunrapa} "1-month" =3D January
{lunrare} "2-month" =3D February
{lunraci} "3-month" =3D March
{lunravo} "4-month" =3D April
{lunramu} "5-month" =3D May
{lunraxa} "6-month" =3D June
{lunraze} "7-month" =3D July
{lunrabi} "8-month" =3D August
{lunraso} "9-month" =3D September
{lunradau} "10-month" =3D October
{lunrafei} "11-month" =3D November
{lunragai} "12-month" =3D December

This has the advantage over the current cmevla method in that, being fu'ivl= a, we can give them place structure and use them in all the ways cmene can = NOT be used. I don't see any cons at all, but I may be mistaken.

Since it is .xorxes. idea, I direct you to him for the proposed definitions= , although I'm certain that it will begin "x1 is month N ...."

-----

In conclusion, it is my desire to inform the whole of jbogugde about these = ideas and to get feedback , and to possibly confuse you lot to start using = them whenever you are talking about days of the week or about months.

Feedback, suggestions, criticisms, praise, and flaming are all welcome and = appreciated. :D

(I'm double-posting this to both lojban lists, please respond on the beginn= er's.)

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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