From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCIhZnlBBoE6ncgkQ@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 01 13:20:39 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P1m5s-0001Lv-EG; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:20:39 -0700 Received: by gxk9 with SMTP id 9sf3382677gxk.16 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:20:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=soCZlDdOB4+wRYwjKDSXiqbUtfO0AfEoCA5jbdOBeE4=; b=FN3qg0Q9wjwZrb+1ginCdZEog/juU6Ba25VlzXe0vXm29cpRBenPuYpFf3s2zYUrnL G7DkykStH2xzf3UvHJklTKlyG4JYeDIfEol4o3RTTztbm12oJtf8zmVVyhHZhhPfrE4T edCFus6YpkhZPGdrJHOnsJ0N32ldIG9sapmfA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=FsgKKyn3Q0+9nRI+F+NDSP0Yk1ccVO6BBMvh6bOT1ohiHnwDC0bHpWjgrvPhHSS1pO kvW2YFPnnC1r8IuvfxY8ncuf8diaLz1lRKzAwviL8Y/g8LJIf7mHZkjwy54AHBS+nUQo vsUP3fINqI2gK812hBOp3jzx/5LqcnstUZxkY= Received: by 10.91.16.18 with SMTP id t18mr410557agi.36.1285964424232; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:20:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.193.98 with SMTP id dt34ls1617787ibb.0.p; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.161.69 with SMTP id q5mr1392807ibx.8.1285964423569; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.161.69 with SMTP id q5mr1392806ibx.8.1285964423532; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f178.google.com (mail-iw0-f178.google.com [209.85.214.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id cn5si961531ibb.2.2010.10.01.13.20.22; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.178; Received: by iwn35 with SMTP id 35so5997049iwn.37 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:20:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.170.21 with SMTP id b21mr6219879ibz.122.1285964422219; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.48.79 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 13:20:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 16:20:22 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] la za'e filjvocedra (The Age of Easy Lujvo) From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=005045029bef948712049193ecc6 --005045029bef948712049193ecc6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I must have gotten mixed up from reading the CLL's algorithm for turning a tanru into a lujvo. For those of us not well-versed enough, what are the main arguments for/against tcebroda vs brodytce? If a lujvo is defined and not necessarily built with a rigid rule-set from it's component gismu, then tcebroda vs brodytce is ultimately a question of preference right? 2010/10/1 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > > > >> And "zmanei" does not mean "ko'a zmadu lo ka ce'u > >> nelci ko'e", so it's not an example of the kind of -zma/-mau we were > >> talking about. > > > > I didn't think it did. I assume it means {ko'e zmadu ko'i lo ka ko'a > nelci > > ce'u}. > > Right, something like that. This is a complicated case, because we > want the x1 of nelci to be the x1 of the lujvo, but also nelci is in a > subordinate position, so it's rather atypical. > > The cases we were discussing were ordinary augmentatives, comparatives > and superlatives. "mutce lo ka ce'u broda", "zmadu fi lo ka ce'u > broda", "traji lo ka ce'u broda". > > > my two cents (and I'm probably glico biased)... I like e.g. {tcebarda}. > I > > think it seems right that if I want to say "tom is very stupid when it > comes > > to girls" I can say {la tam cu tcebebna tu'a lo ninmu}. If I break thi= s > > lujvo apart into a tanru it still makes sense given the bridi tail. > > There's no reason to bring up tanru. A lujvo is not the short version > of a tanru. > > > If it > > were {la tam cu bebnytce tu'a lo ninmu} then breaking it up into a tanr= u > > would yield {la tam cu bebna be tu'a lo ninmu be'o mutce}. It seems li= ke > > making the {tce} a suffix wouldn't be useful in most cases for adding > more > > sumti places. > > "la tam cu bebnytce tu'a lo ninmu" to me means "la tam cu mutce lo ka > ce'u bebna tu'a lo ninmu". A lujvo does not "break apart into a > tanru". > > "mi dadgau lo mapku lo genxu" means "mi gasnu lo nu lo mapkau cu dandu > lo genxu", nothing like "mi dandu gasnu lo mapku lo genxu". > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --005045029bef948712049193ecc6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I must have gotten mixed up from reading the CLL's algorithm for turnin= g a tanru into a lujvo. =A0For those of us not well-versed enough, what are= the main arguments for/against tcebroda vs brodytce? =A0If a lujvo is defi= ned and not=A0necessarily=A0built with a rigid rule-set from it's compo= nent gismu, then tcebroda vs brodytce is ultimately a question of preferenc= e right?

2010/10/1 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And "zmanei" does not mean "ko'a zmadu lo ka ce= 'u
>> nelci ko'e", so it's not an example of the kind of -z= ma/-mau we were
>> talking about.
>
> I didn't think it did. =A0I assume it means {ko'e zmadu ko'= ;i lo ka ko'a nelci
> ce'u}.

Right, something like that. This is a complicated case, because we want the x1 of nelci to be the x1 of the lujvo, but also nelci is in a
subordinate position, so it's rather atypical.

The cases we were discussing were ordinary augmentatives, comparatives
and superlatives. "mutce lo ka ce'u broda", "zmadu fi lo= ka ce'u
broda", "traji lo ka ce'u broda".

> my two cents (and I'm probably glico biased)... I like e.g. {tceba= rda}. =A0I
> think it seems right that if I want to say "tom is very stupid wh= en it comes
> to girls" I can say {la tam cu tcebebna tu'a lo ninmu}. =A0If= I break this
> lujvo apart into a tanru it still makes sense given the bridi tail.
There's no reason to bring up tanru. A lujvo is not the short ver= sion
of a tanru.

>=A0If it
> were {la tam cu bebnytce tu'a lo ninmu} then breaking it up into a= tanru
> would yield {la tam cu bebna be tu'a lo ninmu be'o mutce}. =A0= It seems like
> making the {tce} a suffix wouldn't be useful in most cases for add= ing more
> sumti places.

"la tam cu bebnytce tu'a lo ninmu" to me means "la= tam cu mutce lo ka
ce'u bebna tu'a lo ninmu". A lujvo does not "break apart = into a
tanru".

"mi dadgau lo mapku lo genxu" means "mi gasnu lo nu lo mapka= u cu dandu
lo genxu", nothing like "mi dandu gasnu lo mapku lo genxu".<= br>

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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