From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhCl8LflBBoEU5tLqw@googlegroups.com Thu Oct 07 09:41:25 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P3tWz-0000UC-AU; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:41:24 -0700 Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10sf9089qyk.16 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=a0LEssc/PaH+J8dqYKB3w51zCs9UHk97V6PCgPbB1hY=; b=rywtGWTK2XcPG3FQejQwkMlAP0Z+vcK8pVbOZ04S3ZbQGdq0WV3zPVFQBY6e+WDZFN w9oTyqN2i0kosnsRc5LDSPKjgnl6x/Oy/Alyo/wWJ6idbrFiTyy8xNXUwNfgQBDu90/k osAXbyKJIkRrs09TQ212Tpwo5+1EyFCIGjsks= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=X52pEUhWKtr6Lmt1+mDdP2DlCfUqKmnEe+LxPLHzeu9lbPqduTQJK3lMD1kob58yrM QL0TeYUQ2o2oY96E/v5fCIUxQl6wsl2v5tOx/9Mb4QEBmkvfzgMhLnXKKfdZ1RCH3oPp VRniJzdt4lAdDOiUDqqhOzpgN25dFXe6xfTas= Received: by 10.229.141.76 with SMTP id l12mr64308qcu.19.1286469669354; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:41:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.173.155 with SMTP id p27ls119536qcz.3.p; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.212.137 with SMTP id gs9mr147098qcb.15.1286469668739; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.212.137 with SMTP id gs9mr147097qcb.15.1286469668703; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f179.google.com (mail-qy0-f179.google.com [209.85.216.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l26si764038qck.1.2010.10.07.09.41.07; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.179; Received: by qyk8 with SMTP id 8so45149qyk.3 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:41:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.39.197 with SMTP id h5mr484823qae.201.1286469667286; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.85.3 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Oct 2010 09:41:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201010071224.31384.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201010071224.31384.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 12:41:06 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] cmavo and the gismu like them From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000feaf54f2a886e510492098f23 --000feaf54f2a886e510492098f23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Thursday 07 October 2010 11:39:01 Luke Bergen wrote: > > So, two questions. > > > > pamai Are there any gismu from which {mo'a} "originates" like dukse ~= > du'e > > that could aid me in remembering it? > > remai Is there a list in existence for pairing these gismu~=cmavo to > make > > the lives of nintadni easier? > > repimumai If not, whose up for a little project? > > Many cmavo are derived from a gismu, but with one of the letters altered to > avoid conflict with another cmavo. For instance, "be'a" (north, a tense > marker) is from "berti"; "be'i" is a preposition derived from "benji". At > least one gismu has two cmavo derived from it, namely "mu'a" (in UI) > and "mu'u" (in BAI). Both have the vowel altered from "mupli", because > "mu'i" > was already derived from "mukti". > > Speaking of "be'a", the compass direction letters are BNDV (=NSEW), not the > absurd BSSS in one of the drawings of the Book. They stand for "be'a, ne'u, > du'a, vu'a". > > Pierre Many (if not most) cmavo are derived from gismu (the compass directions are a notable exception). And there is a chart for the BAI cmavo, since they are specifically gismu-derived (see the grammar at the end of chapter 9) But there are plenty of gismu that multiple derived cmavo. For example, se'i/se'o/se'a are all from sevzi. za'a/ga'a are both from zgana. za'u/mau/ma'u are all derived from zmadu, etc. po/po'e and even po'o are all from ponse. You can certainly mentally link the cmavo to the gismu, although some times it requires a bit of creative thinking. (xamgu->vau is of course because we can't start cmavo with x. But that's an exception, rather than the typical case) --gejyspa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000feaf54f2a886e510492098f23 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.n= u> wrote:
On Thursday 07 October 2010 11:39:01 Luke Bergen wrote:> So, two questions.
>
> pamai Are there any gismu from wh= ich {mo'a} "originates" like dukse ~=3D du'e
> that= could aid me in remembering it?
> remai =A0Is there a list in existence for pairing these gismu~=3Dcmavo= to make
> the lives of nintadni easier?
> repimumai If not, wh= ose up for a little project?

Many cmavo are derived from a gis= mu, but with one of the letters altered to
avoid conflict with another cmavo. For instance, "be'a" (nort= h, a tense
marker) is from "berti"; "be'i" is a = preposition derived from "benji". At
least one gismu has two c= mavo derived from it, namely "mu'a" (in UI)
and "mu'u" (in BAI). Both have the vowel altered from "m= upli", because "mu'i"
was already derived from "= mukti".

Speaking of "be'a", the compass direction= letters are BNDV (=3DNSEW), not the
absurd BSSS in one of the drawings of the Book. They stand for "be'= ;a, ne'u,
du'a, vu'a".

Pierre
=A0
=A0 Many (if not most) cmavo are derived from gismu (the compass direc= tions are a notable exception).=A0 And there is a chart for the BAI cmavo, = since they are specifically gismu-derived (see the grammar at the end of ch= apter 9)=A0 But there are plenty of gismu that multiple derived cmavo. For = example, se'i/se'o/se'a are all from sevzi.=A0 za'a/ga'= a are both from zgana.=A0 za'u/mau/ma'u are all derived from zmadu,= etc.=A0 po/po'e and even po'o are all from ponse.=A0 You can certa= inly mentally link the cmavo to the gismu, although some times it requires = a bit of creative thinking.=A0 (xamgu->vau is of course because we can&#= 39;t start cmavo with x.=A0 But that's an exception, rather than the ty= pical case)
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa
=A0

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