From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDXgZ3lBBoEZeVcjg@googlegroups.com Sat Oct 02 07:25:47 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P231v-00075N-F6; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:25:46 -0700 Received: by wyb40 with SMTP id 40sf1007795wyb.16 for ; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:25:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=In4yEbg+HVLFanV+zciLIBXk6OIYJX2eKZhihfd3bXs=; b=Yc9oO7PSByiF5ym6dTuR5asnuVYaAXeOrihta3DxZVjBVUxRLotWpspMSScMDwq76q iLunXFGhdSmxcpwdJW10z9WIDoYrZ1GQLr/yDRFGcqfNeQQ5tKooukAjLx/ZydZxhGEi +7RPOj1EYvhRQ3R4WsaEadkRmV4vTNcc1EbQw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ByJ4FgYfAGelrfrAw1LUfU8saTgLEQ3eJQLh4O+NiJ/B05SzT5QB44LomEiGRZaA4/ R3DxoWvQtqqpG/nhLlEbMjBGILNpOuXQc0OxC0TpHjkf/EPCPnA6pvIrHcBM0togkib4 Y1lHvXd8tZ04NjdTQY6+E2EdKToRTrf3zvtbs= Received: by 10.216.145.214 with SMTP id p64mr1343682wej.12.1286029527211; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:25:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.237.134 with SMTP id y6ls1595866weq.2.p; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.28.82 with SMTP id f60mr5461wea.8.1286029525867; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.28.82 with SMTP id f60mr5460wea.8.1286029525839; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com (mail-ww0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id o41si744340weq.12.2010.10.02.07.25.24; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.53; Received: by mail-ww0-f53.google.com with SMTP id 33so397655wwc.22 for ; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:25:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.147.79 with SMTP id k15mr5815221wbv.128.1286029524666; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.130 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Oct 2010 07:25:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201010011823.25227.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201010011823.25227.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:25:24 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] la za'e filjvocedra (The Age of Easy Lujvo) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Friday 01 October 2010 17:53:34 Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: >> >> My preference is for being as systematic as possible, so: >> >> zmadu fi lo ka broda -> rodmau >> mleca fi lo ka broda -> rodme'a >> traji lo ka broda -> rodrai >> mutce lo ka broda -> rodytce >> milxe lo ka broda -> rodmli >> cenba lo ka broda -> rodycne >> zenba lo ka broda -> rodze'a >> jdika lo ka broda -> rodjdika >> >> and probably some more I'm forgetting. > > I say "mutce broda", so "tcebroda". I would say you are basically treating "mutce" as if it were in selma'o NAhE instead of being a gismu with its own place structure. Something like: to'e broda -> tolbroda na'e broda -> nalbroda no'e broda -> norbroda mutce broda -> tcebroda milxe broda -> mlibroda >> If you prefer "tcebroda" then presumably you should also prefer >> "zmabroda" and "rairbroda", or if not why not? > > If "broda" is intransitive, it doesn't make much difference. However, if = it is > transitive, it can make a difference. For instance, mi neizma la bil. lo > frambesi (I like raspberries more than Bill does) .i mi zmanei lo frambes= i lo > clazme (I like raspberries more than cucumbers). Right, but why isn't there a difference in the case of "mutce"? Most gismu are 'transitive', so if "xautce" means something like "excellent" (mutce lo ka xamgu), would "tcexau" mean something like "good for extremists" (xamgu lo mutce)? Or "good by extreme standards" (xamgu fi lo mutce)? If you say it simply means "mutce xamgu", which most often would be understood in the sense of "mutce lo ka xamgu", then you are using a different system for lujvo with "mutce" from the one you use for lujvo with "zmadu" and "traji". >> A similar discrepancy I have with those who prefer prefix sim- to >> suffix -si'u for reciprocals. > > lo girzu cu tavysi'u .iku'i mi simtavla do Indeed. But not everybody agrees with that. Look for example at the definitions entered in jbovlaste for "simbi'o", "simda'a", "simpe'o". mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.