From lojban+bncCJLV_tPeERCImb3lBBoEKvCEaQ@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 08 09:53:45 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P4GCS-0005KD-OV; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 09:53:44 -0700 Received: by yxk30 with SMTP id 30sf1124029yxk.16 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 09:53:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received :mime-version:received:received:date:x-ip:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=d0aZDL5SSWTzD6C7IErUL+AfOU7gdPyej2TzQ/iSWEI=; b=op93n9E6uoettETPwxgP8kwQmOa3+Iy6OBghrEq9YXtNcuAbugx1lJ0SAHLCe2UJXK pV9yV7LWcJJOKEogUOxghTGn5/8Zgx5px8hUtif6jEO4yRailNDrMsiRnM7ed2mrLb1Q hiogbfDq/51Q/LeQtRjQeX4C/sHuH/rOK6jo0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:x-ip:user-agent:x-http-useragent :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=vlO60hbLoWYk6q0F0FuECE5kw6pEgkvm5QNN0mIBJHJS3UQrL5yivQ+WHJe/kOneUw cPbvqgIkhOEwGOkUe8YJaYXHlDrRWXDAk0fmX5jXDDzCTl4nx/uqUU4IPOmbSIPF22tS JnX2Rw4Tp1qjvjjWRPIwQjManUYEobRoGYikI= Received: by 10.151.69.13 with SMTP id w13mr265493ybk.31.1286556808265; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 09:53:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.69.3 with SMTP id r3ls307251yba.3.p; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 09:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.72.9 with SMTP id u9mr616711yba.37.1286556807738; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 09:53:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.115.80.7 with SMTP id h7mr26068wal.22.1286528829280; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 02:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by n19g2000prf.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Fri, 8 Oct 2010 02:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 02:07:09 -0700 (PDT) X-IP: 67.172.170.151 User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.10) Gecko/20100914 Firefox/3.6.10,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] You're Doing it Wrong From: Viral Lamb To: lojban X-Original-Sender: jms1992@comcast.net Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, I am a newbie. A few years ago, I discovered Lojban. It was love at first sight. I never considered trying to learn another conlang. After reading the L4B, I tried going through the CLL. I got about half way when I had to attend to other more urgent real life matters.Its only just recently I've began re-learning lojban. But this isn't the same language I left years ago. The first thing I realized was the new big change to lojban, "xorlo". I thought it was cool, made sense, no problem. Then I went through the Lojban wave lessons on google. "New teaching for lojban that incorporates all the recent changes? Sweet!" But at the end of it, I was disspointed. It was like an unfinished book. Just a preview. But then I saw that no one had added anything for a year or so. So I turned to the CCL. A bit dense, but the best way to know the language's ins and outs. But then I got to the gadri. All of a sudden, everything broke down. I had the new "xorlo" in one tab, and the old gadri descriptions in the other. The old gadri was thoroughly explained and was had every example in the book...literally. "xorlo" on the other hand I hadn't seen in use. Had no way of knowing if I was using it right in this or that way. Especially since the CLL was using the old gadri. Filled with confusion and frustration, I stopped trying. Why hasn't the CLL been updated? Or the L4B? Why is this "xorlo" thing even here when I see no way of clearly learning it? That made me feel stupid and frustrated. Why does it seem like no one is updating anything? Why does it seem like the community has died? Then I found Robin's essay on his blog, http://teddyb.org/robin/tiki-index.php?page=Lojban:+You%27re+Doing+It+Wrong Finally, someone who felt as I did. Someone who could give me answers. Someone who could show me the light. Then I became sad. This was written in February, and yet nothing has changed. No one was talking about it. The hope I had while reading the essay, then died. It seemed to confirm my feelings. No one cared. And so I'm here now, asking you for help. Google Robin's essay and read it. It's called Lojban: You're Doing It Wrong. Has everyone given up on lojban? Is lojban going down a bad path? Has the BPFK seen this? Why is this essay so hard to find? Does anyone feel as I do? Please, give me your thoughts. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.