From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBD3qr3lBBoEC6K20w@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 08 10:31:48 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P4GnJ-0005vn-L3; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:31:48 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf1165243gya.16 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:31:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; bh=wcH+hOi0+fiiaf3bQMV4lip2E/aN8EPhGiLcNZM6NdY=; b=FjiXG3a70UA2dH8ZkPktFo0TkgsrkRvnw+5ImDMKAKTqNpVrIVEgKhoLc8zONgRT/9 DLeHKDzhPsiODAy6s7gn5fisErjJ64G8rmFsHgQyI65o42tPNIIyfveAYY3kDoUAGtvs i+6Zj2DAdcJPWOATaPzJu0bbWLQaZlcowPdxQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; b=WAxXe9m6DP6P11+0+ZLELDzNzsac957KoyNlYIs5Lr5cDdNogxYRp/moI5hP0uQHy7 qQFbBGU/ydcz0MYCDecjSIFGNtluUIO69N/X/cgJa0S7wzGuiPrQIliXwjdBteu14HqG vQt1Bth0P+rc4FEqFDrhPfv2BU2fvFq5pM79I= Received: by 10.101.151.37 with SMTP id d37mr29661ano.7.1286559095604; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:31:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.30.2 with SMTP id d2ls124664and.6.p; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.96.6 with SMTP id t6mr518580anb.23.1286559095091; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.96.6 with SMTP id t6mr518579anb.23.1286559095072; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f44.google.com (mail-gw0-f44.google.com [74.125.83.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l14si1530076ang.2.2010.10.08.10.31.34; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 74.125.83.44 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=74.125.83.44; Received: by mail-gw0-f44.google.com with SMTP id 20so482013gwb.31 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.198.8 with SMTP id v8mr3447272ybf.115.1286559094850; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.10.243.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v3sm3190535yba.2.2010.10.08.10.31.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:31:30 -0600 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] You're Doing it Wrong Message-ID: <20101008173130.GA29534@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 74.125.83.44 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Oct 08, 2010 at 02:07:09AM -0700, Viral Lamb wrote: > But this isn't the same language I left years ago. I'm personally inspired by Robin's essay as well, and hope to manifest as much of it as I can. The quickest summary I have of the situation is this: a) There are too few fluent speakers of Lojban. b) There are influential people in Lojbanistan that resist change to the status quo. Either actively or simply by non-engagement. c) Some of these people *may* become less resistant to changing the status quo with a greater number of fluent speakers. Most particularly having enough fluent speakers to conduct conversations about changing the baseline in Lojban, rather than discussing it in English. d) Even if that's not true, demographics are on the side of changing the baseline. The timeline is only a matter of our ability to create more fluent speakers. e) The first and best thing you can do for Lojbanistan is to learn Lojban. It would be great if you wanted to clean up and add learning material while you go, but make that secondary to using the language. This community is still bootstrapping itself. We have the most well-specified lanugage ever, and the situation you describe is exactly where we're at. If you want something better than this it frankly doesn't exist today, you have to help make it happen. -Alan -- .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.