From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhD37b3lBBoE_8AwNg@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 08 12:54:47 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f184.google.com ([209.85.160.184]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P4J1f-0006wr-IN; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:54:47 -0700 Received: by gyh3 with SMTP id 3sf1195832gyh.1 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:54:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=liiqBGBNZp6HUHHMY3ZXWCq7gHvh/FsmdiRAs15sCsA=; b=iOxuwroZOLcIuywabIS0ngSDnKekpgPswESyeqBFSFXftq5FVuu01bnIQRgAbKsUe8 8FPoZyE6pyJLBkluvDFxfZl0D81Jp67/sqOK81HHoAvFnYQw7U5wB5gcmtTiQMawlqZT Z3TqX/Iej4pkq14uV7WhdaCnVd/V6+4jsIjkE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=U3nE5/aKCnf441iNMTBSR7sYXxK2kuSSN+gZJMNDUCGR6gvJq7L3OQWwCZCXcRbWsv KDVwyBHF3XazCrIKL8DoS6M7BB/MBdWITFai6vBL2h1RJ9GOIeSpw6wtxA6UibLL5DtG qpj0VQz/C5BXB21/MLWEVoAHA4arw+vxqpK/Q= Received: by 10.150.73.26 with SMTP id v26mr294101yba.5.1286567671270; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:54:31 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.53.9 with SMTP id b9ls387396yba.2.p; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.109.51 with SMTP id r39mr719311yhg.23.1286567670725; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.109.51 with SMTP id r39mr719309yhg.23.1286567670655; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f42.google.com (mail-yw0-f42.google.com [209.85.213.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z5si1077896yhz.0.2010.10.08.12.54.29; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.42; Received: by ywi4 with SMTP id 4so628907ywi.1 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:54:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.107.5 with SMTP id j5mr956144anm.62.1286567667079; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.206.16 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Oct 2010 12:54:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20101008173130.GA29534@alice.local> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 13:54:26 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] You're Doing it Wrong From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636eedfcbc699ca04922060fc --001636eedfcbc699ca04922060fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Frank wrote: > coi djemysyn. > > I did find the first few sections /very/ helpful, Myself. Does Anyone > have a copied of the wave pulled out for reposting on another site? > > mi'e xuinkrbin. > There's a html export available somewhere. Give me a second and I'll find it. http://jbotcan.org/wave_lesson/old.html > On 8 October 2010 13:55, Jameson Orndorff wrote: > >> The shortness and rather abrupt cutoff of the wave lesson is a >> personal failing of mine. While the community did a great job editing >> and compiling that, I sort of stopped having time to teach and thus >> generate the content that drove the wave. Trust me when I say that I >> want to continue to work on it. I really believe in the methodology I >> use to teach lojban and want to use a strong method to attract and >> retain people. Since you did read it, aside from the cutoff and the >> sort of roughness to it, did you find it reasonably useful? >> >> Please stop by IRC, irc.freenode.net #lojban and come chat with us. >> >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 1:31 PM, .alyn.post. >> wrote: >> > On Fri, Oct 08, 2010 at 02:07:09AM -0700, Viral Lamb wrote: >> >> But this isn't the same language I left years ago. >> > >> > I'm personally inspired by Robin's essay as well, and hope to >> > manifest as much of it as I can. >> > >> > The quickest summary I have of the situation is this: >> > >> > a) There are too few fluent speakers of Lojban. >> > b) There are influential people in Lojbanistan that resist change >> > to the status quo. Either actively or simply by non-engagement. >> > c) Some of these people *may* become less resistant to changing >> > the status quo with a greater number of fluent speakers. >> > Most particularly having enough fluent speakers to conduct >> > conversations about changing the baseline in Lojban, rather >> > than discussing it in English. >> > d) Even if that's not true, demographics are on the side of >> > changing the baseline. The timeline is only a matter of >> > our ability to create more fluent speakers. >> > e) The first and best thing you can do for Lojbanistan is to learn >> > Lojban. It would be great if you wanted to clean up and add >> > learning material while you go, but make that secondary to using >> > the language. >> > >> > This community is still bootstrapping itself. We have the most >> > well-specified lanugage ever, and the situation you describe is >> > exactly where we're at. If you want something better than this >> > it frankly doesn't exist today, you have to help make it happen. >> > >> > -Alan >> > -- >> > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001636eedfcbc699ca04922060fc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Frank <frankdmartinez@gma= il.com> wrote:
coi djemysyn.

=A0=A0 =A0I did find the first few s= ections /very/ helpful, Myself. =A0Does Anyone have a copied of the wave pu= lled out for reposting on another site?

mi'e xuinkrb= in.

There's a html export available somewhere. Give m= e a second and I'll find it.

http://jbotcan.org/wave_lesson/old.html
=A0
On 8 October 2010 13:55, Jameson Orndorff <j= torndorff@gmail.com> wrote:
The shortness and rather abrupt cutoff of the wave lesson is a
personal failing of mine. While the community did a great job editing
and compiling that, I sort of stopped having time to teach and thus
generate the content that drove the wave. Trust me when I say that I
want to continue to work on it. I really believe in the methodology I
use to teach lojban and want to use a strong method to attract and
retain people. Since you did read it, aside from the cutoff and the
sort of roughness to it, did you find it reasonably useful?

Please stop by IRC, i= rc.freenode.net #lojban and come chat with us.

On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 1:31 PM, .alyn.post.
<aly= n.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 08, 2010 at 02:07:09AM -0700, Viral Lamb wrote:
>> =A0 But this isn't the same language I left years ago.
>
> I'm personally inspired by Robin's essay as well, and hope to<= br> > manifest as much of it as I can.
>
> The quickest summary I have of the situation is this:
>
> =A0a) There are too few fluent speakers of Lojban.
> =A0b) There are influential people in Lojbanistan that resist change > =A0 =A0to the status quo. =A0Either actively or simply by non-engageme= nt.
> =A0c) Some of these people *may* become less resistant to changing
> =A0 =A0the status quo with a greater number of fluent speakers.
> =A0 =A0Most particularly having enough fluent speakers to conduct
> =A0 =A0conversations about changing the baseline in Lojban, rather
> =A0 =A0than discussing it in English.
> =A0d) Even if that's not true, demographics are on the side of
> =A0 =A0changing the baseline. =A0The timeline is only a matter of
> =A0 =A0our ability to create more fluent speakers.
> =A0e) The first and best thing you can do for Lojbanistan is to learn<= br> > =A0 =A0Lojban. =A0It would be great if you wanted to clean up and add<= br> > =A0 =A0learning material while you go, but make that secondary to usin= g
> =A0 =A0the language.
>
> This community is still bootstrapping itself. =A0We have the most
> well-specified lanugage ever, and the situation you describe is
> exactly where we're at. =A0If you want something better than this<= br> > it frankly doesn't exist today, you have to help make it happen. >
> -Alan
> --
> .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den.
>
>

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--
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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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