From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhDg8b3lBBoE05CFBw@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 08 13:02:57 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P4J9Z-0007Wf-Lt; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:02:57 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf343036wwe.16 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:02:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Z8fWp/g5KBwuGp+6CbTNLo4CJs9fqvmqyA424kx3Oqs=; b=0EQfi/JALmX0ZYQkQekACMGO0nT3ObkmOeQowS1oszFeg3SwFfJpYC6L24MvcJzH+T yXvwV8ka+IFLPr7FvIhiff/as0cAqVcLTlPKDrMT84UnkyhX3Q+sVyrAIRWK4NRMzFDi ZFYJEWGVFExBGx78QUVylDeOgUidB4zdtRGro= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=e37tbVBX2k9phc5W66ruWqHUk2glGc2Xx49hA/yq/9UeZ/CYJ3MCtPg1yTQLUJ3UWL VBR2GQbPqx9LDwI5uY+MiautAnZ5ibhzFhZ2rcsQ62ZBnrgJed3zwrKgwdYEqVFBsNcM WpUilM2z/QsacQn0bdqLrEcFziyglDN+NLbNE= Received: by 10.216.237.83 with SMTP id x61mr221813weq.3.1286568160709; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:02:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.198.162 with SMTP id v34ls617373wen.3.p; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.20.141 with SMTP id p13mr59123wep.11.1286568159400; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.20.141 with SMTP id p13mr59122wep.11.1286568159342; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f180.google.com (mail-wy0-f180.google.com [74.125.82.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r4si1300679wec.6.2010.10.08.13.02.38; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.180; Received: by mail-wy0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 26so2022974wyj.39 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.132.199 with SMTP id c7mr2930384wbt.89.1286568158172; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 13:02:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.138.81 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Oct 2010 13:02:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Stela Selckiku Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 16:02:08 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] You're Doing it Wrong To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Lojban is a living language. Many of us consider ourselves quite conservative about it, but it's still young and changing fairly quickly. There's more changing than in your average natlang, and the things that are changing are more fundamental, since we're still hammering out some of the core grammar and inventing basic vocabulary. Every language changes, though. Consider: The changes over English in the same recent decades, such as the introduction of the words "w00t" and "omg" and "tl;dr", haven't been integrated into most of the learning materials for English (dictionaries, textbooks, etc) even though English has literally more than a million times more speakers than us and leagues of professional educators. Everyone in Lojbanistan makes their own choices about how to improve the condition of our teaching materials. There are a lot of rough and unfinished projects out there that people tried to put together. I don't think that's a failing, it's just a sign that we're open about what we're working on and that we're trying to be helpful, but also that none of us are professional language educators or textbook writers or getting paid to do this. The bright side is that if you're willing to overlook the mess it's all in, there's more than enough material out there to teach you Lojban. If you explore all the half-finished projects and sprawling wiki conversations and archived arguments and so forth you'll eventually know as much about Lojban as we do. That's what it is to know Lojban at this point in history, is to know all the same arguments we keep having and the same confusing explanations we keep giving, to know the inside jokes we share and the buggy programs we rely on. There's no perfect polished Lojban we're keeping secret from you around the corner, it really is just this crazy beast you see, though it does work fairly well in practice. What I'm personally working on, as far as basic teaching materials, is video lessons. Up until now there have been no audio or video lessons at all. What I'm doing is just to talk into a camera sometimes and explain some basic things about Lojban. It's not very organized, I just have a vague sense of what I've talked about so far (not much) and what's left to cover (lots of stuff). At this very moment I'm uploading a video that's nearly 14 minutes of me walking around in the woods trying my best to explain the basic idea of sumti and how to use them in a bridi. I haven't covered lo/le yet, but since you asked I'll try to do my best today to explain that (I'm going to do it from the perspective of teaching the controversy/history). If you have any other requests for what I should talk about, I'd be happy to oblige. I'm planning soon to make some playlists to separate out lessons in English vs simple demonstrative Lojban vs me blabbing about stuff in Lojban vs my little songs, but so far it's all just in a jumble sorry: http://youtube.com/selckiku Thanks for your interest in Lojban. If you can tolerate our quirks, we'd be very pleased to have you as a Lojbanist, as a conversation partner, and as a friend. mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.