From lojban+bncCN673cmqFBDhoL_lBBoEJPotRg@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 08 19:16:16 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P4Oyq-0002Y0-P5; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 19:16:15 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf1606331gya.16 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 19:16:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:organization :user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Kyr6f9H2bnvg0iQ2R80cac219YE8LUjG1vMAg2Z2Si4=; b=lA8zKPlMFkwyUzoJnE3nOoPijWzxw7G4JtUG2Yrw69GMIp/hpLGx9mrtTvqKcbtHQX RRhdVJqZZhgP/ugtnntDCrdaA474BzdLD/J1vgNtkch1xeGTVwxWOZEZbH+2+bBfHQqq 3o3kAAwPunxGdCxO1xNC5fYoYGDbSc/kinSyU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:x-accept-language :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=MDjT/6icOoWEnaps/oKxArkpli47x3CS/zaOdN1uebJ24rTqAwrN25sJqKNx5JvTC6 IzkHj1y//nBf0A+IxhDKGVnDR0MtkHa8vwi+LdjCAZaxF+0l90B9gR8U2hSCZ5mjAZKE ETMkNEtXAutQ+rI/7vqTqTpn7Ky3KXWSDTi1E= Received: by 10.151.116.16 with SMTP id t16mr244903ybm.26.1286590561016; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 19:16:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.53.21 with SMTP id b21ls486734yba.4.p; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 19:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.215.8 with SMTP id n8mr799988ybg.28.1286590560365; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 19:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.215.8 with SMTP id n8mr799987ybg.28.1286590560342; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 19:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao107.cox.net (eastrmmtao107.cox.net [68.230.240.59]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v9si2042094yba.3.2010.10.08.19.16.00; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 19:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.59 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.59; Received: from eastrmimpo03.cox.net ([68.1.16.126]) by eastrmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20101009021559.IRZY21335.eastrmmtao107.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2010 22:15:59 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([70.179.118.163]) by eastrmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id GSFz1f0063Xcbvq02SFz7Q; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 22:15:59 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=z6CBhH0tHruS0FbwYG+vLjSarkX/HqbUMpkqCCzoucY= c=1 sm=1 a=anaGBC3uymMA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:17 a=mK_AVkanAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=inBnm7syNkSFD-EtORMA:9 a=Pcx2Fmj16rJlemRaIsgA:7 a=98iMJQ7eBoMmGD4sf-RlqDnrJ8QA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=3iSwLDdXMGwA:10 a=9xyTavCNlvEA:10 a=rC2wZJ5BpNYA:10 a=dxBpO5_FDU0A:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4CAFD045.5090601@lojban.org> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 22:15:33 -0400 From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: You're Doing it Wrong References: <20101008173130.GA29534@alice.local> <90eb6726-ca64-466f-8d18-6ab3924fde26@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.59 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Brian Shannon > wrote: > >>On 8 October 2010 19:23, Lindar wrote: >> >>>Also, we're not a dead community. >>>... >>>You involved yourself with non-interactive learning media and then >>>seemed put-off by the lack of community. >> >>I'm put off by the lack of activity around incomplete learning >>materials for newcomers such as myself - not by a lack of community. >> > > > Ooh, ooh! Can I play "blame the newbie"? Fact is, we were ALL > newbies once. Every single one of us. Even lojbab, the inventor of > lojban. These days, lojbab sometimes feels like he is a newbie again %^) > And all of us who are in the community today learned with at > MOST the amount of material you have at your disposal, and in many > cases, a lot less. Before 1997, there was no CLL, and the most detailed material to learn from was the diagrammed summary that is now Chapter 2 of CLL, and the YACC grammar itself, and for a chunk of the language, the incomplete draft textbook that I was writing as I went along teaching the first Lojban class in 1989. > So obviously, it's out there, it's sufficient for > the purposes of learning, Nick Nicolas learned the language basically after a weekend of studying the minimal materials available in 1990, and then just starting to write and translate. The only real way to learn a language is to use it, and to make LOTS of mistakes (which everyone will be glad to correct). lojbab -- Bob LeChevalier lojbab@lojban.org www.lojban.org President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.