From lojban+bncCICntNPQBRD1xsrlBBoECai3hQ@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 10 22:41:24 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P5B8T-0003at-76; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:41:24 -0700 Received: by pzk2 with SMTP id 2sf148073pzk.16 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:41:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:x-ip:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5GCKk1gRNoraQlzWmoa5CYFs0QnUky14ytQ/aopVQxw=; b=RbdyrTahf2P4znaB74w2k9mHWzzodckRbHQxE7EM2v3AVzQlY0eodOe9xRkOqmAaQP PaH/p10t8B6h55cZKoEknaihuibFeyH0GPZ38qi5K2E8hot42onGIi93tkeTCpBSrwDl /FA8rXVAZz2xxPhGGsAxgzVik7oRa0XL9pNjA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:x-ip:user-agent:x-http-useragent :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=AeLwsksXJMedfpmlYpTHtg17H/mP5+2MCtniT1VrVrFe2FbaqFWBUAosZtT3uFoMmO EG/Zc1pnKt92R9Np6HgaVSvBnWjKBYK19WsJn37yuRbkjpBSq5ZiKE4fOPt3zaxwAty8 bVBSkCcGoEA2wnB7w3xSCKrTIsHlBL84SBr2A= Received: by 10.114.54.20 with SMTP id c20mr446061waa.18.1286775669726; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:41:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.115.148.3 with SMTP id a3ls2445648wao.0.p; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:41:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.115.38.27 with SMTP id q27mr252063waj.19.1286775668977; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by n41g2000prb.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:41:08 -0700 (PDT) X-IP: 166.191.227.16 User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.10) Gecko/20100915 Ubuntu/10.04 (lucid) Firefox/3.6.10,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Ranking system? (I'm a level X Lojbanist) From: Lindar To: lojban X-Original-Sender: lindarthebard@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html These items are based on the article linked above. (You may want to read it first/at the same time, but it's not necessary.) 5. lo tanxe be fi'a la .skinr. Pulling the most basic ideas out of our arses, we can use a modified spaced-repetition system to learn vocabulary words (I like how SmartFM does it. Flash cards for the gismu and one for each place as well as the reverse, plus a multiple-choice and a fill-in-the-blank.), but we give experience points on a curve (much like the standard MMO levels are fast at first, and take proportionately longer as one continues). What happens when we hit that lull about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way to the level-cap? 4. lo pacman xu Some kind of unrelated thing! A side effect of killing monsters in an MMO is getting items/money which can be cashed in for better items, which makes killing that next tier of monsters a bit easier. When you're not grinding and levelling, you're focusing on getting that newest suit of armour, that cool new sword, that spell scroll, and so on. However, that stuff comes easily with levelling, so you get collectibles. Cards are a great example for this. Employing this in the idea for Lojban, we can reward skins, collectible cards, avatar decorations, or anything else applicable. Once the player is done levelling, there's still another activity they have to do to earn those other items. Maybe once they're done with vocab exercises, the players can hop on IRC and earn credits for every line of Lojban they use (this is obviously not a perfect idea, but you see what I mean). So for every 50-100 lines of Lojban, they can earn X credits (perhaps modified by their level), which go towards a collectible item. 3. lo dirgo be lo cizda'u Every X number of successes earns the player a chance to do activity Y which has a random chance of producing desired effect Z. Perhaps after every 10 new words in SRS the player gets a chance to pull a slot machine lever to get a bonus Z. This could be coins (as mentioned in previous), mini-games (which also somehow teach lojban), or any other kind of reward. Using this kind of system all over means that the users will press that button thousands and thousands of times because they don't know just when that next pellet will come out. Again, start it on a curve, like... 2. lo rapybatke ...easing them into playing. Start off with fast levels, (small) rewards more often, get them hooked. Yes, this is what drug peddlers/ tobacco companies to do get people hooked and get more customers. Why not do it for good instead of evil? =D Let's take a hint from both the MMO and casual game markets. Involve players in small, bite-sized adventures with immediate rewards. Before they've even started, they're already done! It's like eating potato chips. It's small, delicious, crunchy, satisfying, but not enough. So the player eats another one, and another one, and very quickly the whole bag is gone without the player having noticed. However, it's not good to fill up on crisps, so we have to include meal options here. Space the save points out so that if the mission is abandoned, the player loses all of that progress. One must finish or lose the progress for the entire mission. It's the all-you-can-eat scenario. No matter how hungry a person is, ey only has so much room, but ey must eat enough to warrant the purchase. So now we have our burger and chips. Penultimate element is "play it or lose it". In Everquest, one must return to one's castle or it will decay. In Farmville (facebook game) one must constantly tend to one's crops or they will wither. In Animal Crossing, one must play every day or the town will become infested with weeds and the player's neighbours will feel lonely. The whole idea is to introduce an element wherein the player's progress will decay if not advanced, or at least maintained. This is pretty much a given in Lojban, however, as NOT playing means forgetting Lojban. Finally, putting in an achievement system (think XBOX, steam, and similar) gives players a reason to continue long after everything else is done. Even fluent players would want to unlock the achievements! "Writer Rank 1" - Player has written at least one short story which has been recognised by the BPFK. =D 1. norgleki Autonomy (that is, you have some say in what you do day to day); Complexity (so it's not mind-numbing repetition); Connection Between Effort and Reward (i.e. you actually see the awesome results of your hard work). These are the three things that a person needs to have a satisfying job. I bet you don't even have two of them. Video games fill a void and are designed to fill in all three of these, or at least make you think you're getting all three of these things. Autonomy: Class, race, quests, skills, build. Allow the players a choice in what activities they do. Do they want to learn a certain selma'o? A certain set of concepts (time and space cmavo, words about colours, animal names)? Do we introduce other choices like creating a virtual country and giving the player a choice between cities/backgrounds/other choice? Complexity: Remember all those quests? They were the same thing (fetch 100 $item !) over and over again, but they got more complex. Fetch 100 $item_a, then continue to $place to talk to $sage who will turn them into $component_a and tell you that you need $item_b and $item_c to get $component_b and $component_c plus $reagent, and then you have to go through $dungeon to $ancient_fires to bless them, and then cool them in $sacred_waters of $holy_place, but you have $short_time to get them from $ancient_fires to $sacred_waters, so you better hurry. You get the point. So, really, it's just fighting monsters over and over again, but you THINK it's complex. Connection between effort and reward: DAH DAAAAAHHH!! Victory music, lights, sounds, confetti, level up, new abilities! "Knowing more Lojban" is, unfortunately, a side effect. You need immediate neurological stimulation in addition to the more obvious rewards (better items, which is a "wow, these -are- better") and higher level areas, "Huh, this is kinda cool.". Likewise, we have to provide some kind of immediate connection so the player recognises that they are being rewarded, and that it is a good thing. So, in a world dominated by technology and gaming, why not turn Lojban into something fun. Perhaps we can tie in a story line? Turn the children's show (or a comic book series, or something else, but a plot none the less) into the variable spaced reward. =D Let me know what you guys think and if you have any suggestions. Throw this idea around and concept as much as you'd like. I'll be back later. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.